RS2 makes 150lbft for almost entire rev range and 190bhp on standard engine :)

[.Mike]

Problem with yours by comparison though is that if you change up at 6K you'll fall into that small torque hole you have at just over 4K, and if you try and hang on till over 7K to avoid that then you end up in the region that it just totally plummets at the end, so either way you would really struggle to keep it on the boil properly on track, where as the RS2 you can change early or late and still be right on the money for torque everywhere.

But for the money, thats a really healthy gain and definately a good first step on a standard car.
Yours looks a good one to begin with too it made more than ours did even on matched inlets.

Yeah its quite a strong un, didnt look that way when I got it and found out the timing was out

Hopefully some 421s next

 

[Chip-mk1]

Wow, that really was rubbish to begin with Mike!

421s will certainly help a lot

 

[Silent_Scone]

rolling roads, showing up mechanics since 2000

 

[Laine_16v]

Haha you know somethings up when you make peak torque at 3000rpm lol

 

[Jonny1*2]

And when you change your mind, you can unbolt it all, reflash the ecu and sell it on for £800.

Bit harder to that with cams

Re: the mounts, you cant have standard ones - the manifold would foul the rad, etc.

What have you been smoking

 

[Chip-mk1]

What have you been smoking

Do you think 800 secondhand is too high or too low a price?
Sounded about right to me TBH, not like something like this drops in value much when there is quite a lot of demand for them and very few ever available secondhand.

Certainly has to be somewhere in the 700-800 region I would have thought, really cant see it struggling to sell at that price with so many people saying they want one but cant quite afford it etc.

 

[Jonny1*2]

I assumed he was meaning the ECU. Just realised he mean the RS2.lol

 

[Chip-mk1]

I assumed he was meaning the ECU. Just realised he mean the RS2.lol

Lol!

 

[Andyman]

Here's mine on its old spec 4 years back running regrind cams, headwork, matched inlets and mapped up. Roughly about the same cost as a RS2 starting from scratch

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

I logged on the forum on my phone just to see the graph in the first post (I can't view the pics on my work's computer).

I want to call bullshit, that is a fantastic torque curve. Why do uprated engine mounts stop this fouling the rad?

 

[Sir_Dave]

Why do uprated engine mounts stop this fouling the rad?

Umm, they stop it moving lol.

 

[shiftspark]

I assumed he was meaning the ECU. Just realised he mean the RS2.lol

This is more evidence of you cracking up Jonny :S

 

[domsclio182]

Getting a bit boring now boys I am sure people an make there own mind up,there is no end of info on this

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

^ lolwut?

If it's boring don't waste your time commenting.

 

[aucky]

Getting a bit boring now boys I am sure people an make there own mind up,there is no end of info on this

Yet you read it anyway?

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

On a more on-topic note.

Does anyone know if you can buy this for a Ph1 yet?

 

[Chip-mk1]

On a more on-topic note.

Does anyone know if you can buy this for a Ph1 yet?

Dont think so, James said on here the other day he is planning on trial fitting one soon.

Problem is that I think its going to be dearer than the phase 2, as it has to accomodate the idle control valve

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Gutted.

I still want that torque curve in my life!

 

[James28]

From this thread I think I've finally been able to work out how to read rolling road graphs!
So that's a result at least!

 

[-J-]

Great results, just waiting for a booking at MWM to get mine mapped. Will be very happy if I get close to these results!

 

[DanielG]

Congrats to the RS2 manifold for finally cracking the standard torque figure :quiet:

Are people still forgetting the large chunk of mid range torque the RS2 removes over the stock cast manifold?

I wasn't going to post this, but I can't help myself... too annoyed. Listen to this man ^

What you're looking at is a stock 182 (green line, 111.8 fwkw) vs my RS2'd 172 w/ 100 cell metal cat and K-Tec Supersport Recessed exhaust (red line, 108.3 fwkw)

Tuned by Henk. My car is pulling a whopping 1 kW at the wheel more than it was when stock and a cool 4 kW peak less than a stock 182 (and almost 15 kW in the midrange, awesome!)

Basically, my gains over the stock car are below 2900rpm and that's it! Also, I can assure you my cam timing is spot on. This car pulled 6.1 fwkw more than a similarly tuned 172 on the same dyno, same day, half a year ago.

Henk has said from the first data log that he can't see the manifold making any difference and that it was flowing *less* air than the stock manifold. The AFR on his stock fuel map was tipping into the 10.5:1 range at some points and sitting around 11:1 for most of the rev range!

Don't take this as a bashing post of the RS2, far from it. It's an amazing looking kit and sounds fantastic too... I just don't think it works on every car. I know there is more than one person on these forums who have gotten lower than expected results.

 

[yeecup]

A inlet manifold, some bling carbon with a induction kit bolted on the end. Company went bust. Now somebody else jumps on the rs2 is the best mod ever bandwagon. It's not. It really isn't.

 

[Chip-mk1]

DanielG, your car might have been down on power to begin with though, or not mapped well enough, you are comparing two different cars one of which possibly had 20bhp less to start with or isnt mapped right.

 

[Chip-mk1]

A inlet manifold, some bling carbon with a induction kit bolted on the end. Company went bust. Now somebody else jumps on the rs2 is the best mod ever bandwagon. It's not. It really isn't.

Its a set of 4 runners, each with a trumpet on the end, into a shared decent sized plenum, its a very good upgrade compared to the standard inlet.

Its ludicrous to say it "doesnt work on all standard engines" like DanielG above has done as the plenum and runners really cant fail to work, if someone fails to make the numbers on throttle bodies (happens frequently with a bad tune) is anyone going to say that throttle bodies dont work?

I really dont see how anyone can possibly think its the RS2 at fault when a car fails to make the numbers on it, its really not like it can be failing to do its job, its just a plenum!


Ive seen a couple of people post graphs on here of 150bhp engines on the standard inlet, but people arent stupid enough to think the inlet is at fault, yet the moment its an RS2 on the engine its instantly down to that if the car doesnt make the numbers, LOL

 

[Nick172Cup]

A inlet manifold, some bling carbon with a induction kit bolted on the end. Company went bust. Now somebody else jumps on the rs2 is the best mod ever bandwagon. It's not. It really isn't.

Nicely incorrect in everything you've said there... Lol

Love fools like you, driven one?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Nicely incorrect in everything you've said there... Lol

Love fools like you, driven one?

Not quite true, he IS correct that its an individual short runner intake manifold (same thing as a throttle body manifold barring some bolt spacing etc) with trumpets like on a throttle body setup and a carbon plenum and an induction kit.

Thats totally true, and thats why it CANT fail to work, if it seems like it isnt working, its because the person tuning the engine has done something wrong, or the engine has a fault.
The fact the intake is so fundamentally simple is why its not ever going to be the thing going wrong, just like a set of throttle bodies wont be (unless there is a problem like the flaps not opening)

If you take a set of AT power throttle bodies or similar, then run a plenum over the front of it to have a shared intake, then thats exactly the same at full throttle as an RS2, the fact there is one throttle instead of 4 makes no difference when they are open as its almost no restriction anyway.
So in the same way that setup wouldnt be at fault if a car with it didnt make the numbers, neither is an RS2 going to be.


He's wrong about JMS "going bust" though, that implies debts and creditors etc, not just that the directors decided to go their seperate ways and close the company down gracefully.

 

[Ol’ Tarby]

No disrespect to Henk, or DanielG, but surely you can't produce the best map possible for the car without actually being with the car on a rolling road seeing what is going on in realtime?

 

[Chris205]

No disrespect to Henk, or DanielG, but surely you can't produce the best map possible for the car without actually being with the car on a rolling road seeing what is going on in realtime?

IIRC henk mapped it personally on a RR

 

[Chip-mk1]

No disrespect to Henk, or DanielG, but surely you can't produce the best map possible for the car without actually being with the car on a rolling road seeing what is going on in realtime?

If given the correct feedback it is possible to remotely map a car, but it certainly makes it more difficult than being here.

If its not making the numbers its certainly far more likely to be a fault in the mapping than a fault in the cast ally manifold, the trumpets or the plenum, these just arent things that tend to not work unless there was some physical damage to them!

 

[aucky]

A inlet manifold, some bling carbon with a induction kit bolted on the end. Company went bust. Now somebody else jumps on the rs2 is the best mod ever bandwagon. It's not. It really isn't.

I give in.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I give in.

LOL


Its really weird the way the product gets blamed on this forum whenever a car its fitted to has a problem or doesnt make the numbers other cars with it do.

Ive not seen that with any other product on here, if someone fits throttle bodies and there car doesnt make the numbers people seem to understand its NOT the throttle bodies at fault but despite the RS2 being almost identical in basic operation to a set of bodies (ie provide each cylinder with good smoothed airflow down a trumpet and well shaped runner) they dont seem to be able to apply the same logic to it.


It would appear that its good, but its NOT idiotproof, LOL

 

[Cup_Phil]

I've heard so many stories about the RS2 now that are always either "it sounds awesome and pulls well" or "I sold it because I lost power"

I think they're designed very well - but what I can't get my head around is that you're still using the stock throttle body - that's always going to be the bottle neck - it certainly doesn't flow as much air as 4 independent throttle bodies - and that's why I never got one

The cost for the RS2 kit is the exact same that I paid for a 2nd hand Omex 600, Jenvey ITBs, cable throttle pedal and everything I needed to plug and play. My car pulls like a steam train, sounds amazing and it took a whole 3 hours to fit the kit.

I just can't see how the RS2 is worth it considering all the mediocre reviews and the high cost!

 

[Cup_Phil]

If you take a set of AT power throttle bodies or similar, then run a plenum over the front of it to have a shared intake, then thats exactly the same at full throttle as an RS2, the fact there is one throttle instead of 4 makes no difference when they are open as its almost no restriction anyway.
So in the same way that setup wouldnt be at fault if a car with it didnt make the numbers, neither is an RS2 going to be.

That's not quite true though is it?

With the bodies you get 4 x 48mm butterflies - and the carbon intake box has a 100mm air feed
With the RS2 you get the stock throttle body size which if I remember correctly is about 65-67mm ?

 

[Jonny1*2]

It's more like 60mm mate

 

[Jaff.]

N/A tuning is as much about flow as it is about volume tho so it doesnt matter...

if you put a bigger TB on the RS2 youd probably get better results, just like you get better results with 4 indipendant throttle bodies.

so whats the problem?

all i see there is a very very impressive torque curve on a generally stanard engine

 

[mark123]

What about cams (428/438 for example) though, the RS2 doesn't seem suited to cams. All the people on here who've had them fitted have not made any more power than std cams. James' car excluded.

If it was as simple as you describe above chip surely they'd make the typical additional 10+ bhp that 428s make with bodies.

 

[Russ_16v]

I 'think' from memory the standard tb is 63mm, though i might be wrong

 

[DanielG]

DanielG, your car might have been down on power to begin with though, or not mapped well enough, you are comparing two different cars one of which possibly had 20bhp less to start with or isnt mapped right.

Did you read what I said at all? I'm very very certain my car wasn't down on power to begin with. It was pulling higher than some stock 182's half a year ago with nothing more than a 2.25" leaky exhaust, ITG Maxogen and remap.

Give me 2-3 weeks and I'll get it dynoed on the same set of rollers in stock form. I'm willing to bet the cost of the manifold that it'll pull a similar, if not higher, figure.

No disrespect to Henk, or DanielG, but surely you can't produce the best map possible for the car without actually being with the car on a rolling road seeing what is going on in realtime?

Like mentioned, with the right said of data, Henk can do it just as well as having the car there. He assures me the map is almost as good as he can make it. I have one more of his maps to try out where he's enabled the cam advance in the top end. So instead of flattening out like it does now, I should have a higher peak, but drop off after.

I've heard so many stories about the RS2 now that are always either "it sounds awesome and pulls well" or "I sold it because I lost power"
I just can't see how the RS2 is worth it considering all the mediocre reviews and the high cost!

I'd love to know too. I had high hopes for the manifold and originally thought the guys who were bashing it were idiots.

Regardless, I will know for sure in 2-3 weeks time what figures my car pulls stock. That will be the true representation of how my car fares stock vs RS2. The stock 182 I went on the dyno with actually has an RS2 manifold as well, just has not been fitted yet. So give it a month or so and we'll have another set of stock vs RS2 figures, that aren't UK based (still don't get why you guys love quoting corrected flywheel power, so much room for fudging figures)


EDIT:

For something that was claimed to have good gains even without remapping, I got no gains before mapping, or after mapping. Explain that one.

 

[mark123]

N/A tuning is as much about flow as it is about volume tho so it doesnt matter...

if you put a bigger TB on the RS2 youd probably get better results, just like you get better results with 4 indipendant throttle bodies.

so whats the problem?

all i see there is a very very impressive torque curve on a generally stanard engine

I'm sure I remember Matt from TDF saying the std TB was good for over 200bhp when he was looking at producing a similar setup to the RS2.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I've heard so many stories about the RS2 now that are always either "it sounds awesome and pulls well" or "I sold it because I lost power"

I think they're designed very well - but what I can't get my head around is that you're still using the stock throttle body - that's always going to be the bottle neck - it certainly doesn't flow as much air as 4 independent throttle bodies - and that's why I never got one

The stock throttle body will easily flow WELL over 200bhp worth of air.
The disadvantages the RS2 has versus a set of bodies are that the runners are restricted in length by the need for clearance between the trumpet and the plenum, and the plenum volume is restricted in volume by needing to avoid contact on the slam panel.
4 throttles or 1 makes no difference performance wise if the inlet is designed correctly, havent you seen touring car engines making massive numbers on single throttle inlets?

And have you stopped to think about the fact that the engine is basically only ever breathing on ONE small throttle at a time on a 4 stroke 4 cylinder engine, it doesnt breathe in on all 4 cylinders at once as when one is breathing in one is compressing the fuel air mix with the inlet valve closed, and one is on the power stroke with the intake valve close and one is on the exhaust stroke with the inlet valve closed.
S2000 honda engine makes 240bhp on a single throtlte inlet with a throttle body roughly the same size as a clio one (only about 2mm different IIRC)

The cost for the RS2 kit is the exact same that I paid for a 2nd hand Omex 600, Jenvey ITBs, cable throttle pedal and everything I needed to plug and play. My car pulls like a steam train, sounds amazing and it took a whole 3 hours to fit the kit.

Secondhand parts are always going to be better value, I can buy a secondhand evo for less than a new clio for example.
You also are of course then going to need mapping unless you get lucky and it arrives with a decent map.
But ultimately for performance I agree that throttle bodies are marginally better than an RS2 is.

I just can't see how the RS2 is worth it considering all the mediocre reviews and the high cost!

To find out how good the product itself is, you only really need to look at the best results it can achieve IMHO, the people who fail to get the right results have a problem with their engine or their mapping or the instalation that is stopping them from achieving the same results themselves.