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sonny172cup "track car to race car project"



Silverstone International Race report 2015

Qualification session

Didn't know what to expect from quali, the car having its ECU problem fixed and a new Gripper gear box, wasnt 100% sure if the ECU problem was fixed etc and only way I was going to find out was out on track, so I went out and put hot laps in from the start, not having driven Silverstone in over a year (last time was when the club was there racing) and being a short circuit it wasnt really hard to forget the layout.
The car felt good, the ECU problem had finally been resolved, power delivery was as it should be and the car handled pretty well, I was still to make my mind up on the EPAS, as this was the first time I had used it in the race car.
I managed a time of 1:09:089 putting me 5th on the grid out of 29 starters with a 02 second gap from pole. Happy with that, best Quali to date, that put me in a positive mood for the day.


Race 1:

There was a bit of a c**k up at the start, after our green flag lap we had finished lining up on the grid to be told that we was to do another green flag lap due to a delayed start (for whatever reason) the marshals had even come to our cars to tell us this and even left one of the other competitors doors open, shortly afterwards the 5 second board was shown and the lights went out, this signaled the race start and half the field behind started to race, I decided to go for it until told otherwise, I lost out by 2 positions. This was very unsafe, and a complaint went to race control by a few of the drivers including myself.

By the time I made up my original position the Safety Car came out, this was deployed for 3-4 laps, to recover a car that had come off at Becketts, I saw the SC lights had gone out so set my self up, got a good restart so to speak, I ended up going into Copse a bit to keen and tapped the curb unsettling the car, tried to counter act it, but got a bit of a tank slapper on and lost it, managed to get her back on the black stuff, by this time I had lost a lot of places, so spent the next half of the race picking my way back up the field finishing in 8th 1:08:840.




Race 2:

Not a good start, spun up the wheel to much off the start line and then spun out again into the first corner, I put in to much steering input, and ended up in field....again lost my position a lot and spent the rest of the race picking my way up through the field, which was actually quite fun. I was also suffering from the dreaded fuel surge again first time ever, so I spoke to soon Andrew.....I finished again in 8th place 4th in class with a time of 01:08:50 setting a new PB This translated to a 36 second gap to the winning car





Summary:

In all the years I have been track driving and last seasons racing on R888 I have never spun out, since fitting the Dunlops I have spun out 4 times this season, now I know these tyres need working hard to bring the rears up to temp but its something I must as a driver remember to do and also to bare in mind to take it easy on the first lap, but not too easy to lose out places, its just something to bear in mind. I am always testing with settings, also you would be interested to know I dont run a PMS rear strengthening kit or a RARB, just the rose jointed beam. Mid race the tyres was fantastic, so do I set the car up for cold tryes/race start or leave it as it is and just work my way around it?

EPAS, hmmmm mid race its fantastic, but low speeds/around paddock I don,t, not sure if its my unit, but feel the resistance can change regardless of where the dial is set, however it inst as bad as I thought it would be.

Anyway, it was good to see the old faces in the paddock as well as some of the new blood who will be joiing us at the end of the year and next season.

Roll on Castle Combe

Sonny

Few action shots

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  Renault Clio 172
I hope I didn't curse your car with my fuel problem!!!

I've been thinking the same about tyres. made the same change as you, and have spun twice since, and nearly spun a lot more! I may try my R888 for Combe...

Your video of race 2 shows the difference though mate, very simular cars, but you went passed me like i was stood still! What the camera doesn't show, is me folking you as you went passed :)
 
Your engine sounds mega sonny!

Not sure what the issue is though regarding the spinning out, your car just doesn't seem to like to be unsettled at all by kerbs or bumps, particularly early on.

I run the dunlops as well, and I do have the PMS rear strengthening kit. I have switched to the narrower 195's now though in R1 compound and I do find them better for our short 15 min races.
 
  Renault Clio 172
Your engine sounds mega sonny!

Not sure what the issue is though regarding the spinning out, your car just doesn't seem to like to be unsettled at all by kerbs or bumps, particularly early on.

I run the dunlops as well, and I do have the PMS rear strengthening kit. I have switched to the narrower 195's now though in R1 compound and I do find them better for our short 15 min races.
Hi James. I took my PMS rear bar off, as I found it too stiff. Do you not find it bounces around?
 
Hi James. I took my PMS rear bar off, as I found it too stiff. Do you not find it bounces around?

It not the rear bar I have mate, I have fitted the rear beam strengthening kit.

It comes as a load of pre cut metal plates that you weld to the ream beam to stiffen it up. I find it just the right amount of rear roll stiffness without the need for any extra Rear ARB.
 
  Renault Clio 172
It not the rear bar I have mate, I have fitted the rear beam strengthening kit.

It comes as a load of pre cut metal plates that you weld to the ream beam to stiffen it up. I find it just the right amount of rear roll stiffness without the need for any extra Rear ARB.
Ah, that's what i have at the moment. I removed my ARB.
 
I hope I didn't curse your car with my fuel problem!!!

I've been thinking the same about tyres. made the same change as you, and have spun twice since, and nearly spun a lot more! I may try my R888 for Combe...

Your video of race 2 shows the difference though mate, very simular cars, but you went passed me like i was stood still! What the camera doesn't show, is me folking you as you went passed :)

I ran R888 all last season in 195 spec and was great however they do go off quickly however that would depend on driving style/and geo I guess.

Yes it seemed I did, however on some of the straights we was pretty matched, I suppose its the Gripper and 13/58CW thats giving me the extra acceleration out of the corners.

We do have same spec, but head flow, header and cam timing all plays a part I guess, I am on Ktec Bodies 45mm (which are the Jenvey DHC) and 90mm trumpets, we found this to be a perfect set up, any longer trumpets then there would not have been the correct gap between horn face and inside of filter.

Are you making use of the gears coming out of the corners? At the weekend I beat my PB by 2 seconds as reference

I have spent 2 seasons perfecting my set up, every 2 races I chop and change to find what best suits me, example a car thats not geo'd and not corner weighted currently will make a car handle like a dog and will make you loose confidence which in turn makes you slower.
 
Your engine sounds mega sonny!

Not sure what the issue is though regarding the spinning out, your car just doesn't seem to like to be unsettled at all by kerbs or bumps, particularly early on.

I run the dunlops as well, and I do have the PMS rear strengthening kit. I have switched to the narrower 195's now though in R1 compound and I do find them better for our short 15 min races.


Tbh The set up seems fine mid race which would just indicate that the tyres are the main cause (an incorrect driver input) i will keep it as it is for Castle Combe and get the car geo'd and corner weighted and take it from there. Im wondering if my rear beam has gone out of allingment, changing the thrust angle of the car slightly hence why its a bit eager when tyres are not brought up to the correct operating temp.
 
  Clio 172 & BMW 335D
Very Interesting, my car is no where near that bhp yet but still debating what set up to get...bodies (If i can find the money) alos was tempted with the old/new JMS RS2 inlet set up correctly seems to be okay...your thoughts would be good on this.
However just for comparison I currently run around 2.07 around Oulton however this is fighting way through traffic etc etc (you kow how it is on a track day) and not in 'race' also

I cant say how different i found my car after having it set up with camber and corner weighting it made such a difference well worth it, will be doing it again when I move things around and new cage etc etc. @sonny172cup
 
  Renault Clio 172
I ran R888 all last season in 195 spec and was great however they do go off quickly however that would depend on driving style/and geo I guess.

Yes it seemed I did, however on some of the straights we was pretty matched, I suppose its the Gripper and 13/58CW thats giving me the extra acceleration out of the corners.

We do have same spec, but head flow, header and cam timing all plays a part I guess, I am on Ktec Bodies 45mm (which are the Jenvey DHC) and 90mm trumpets, we found this to be a perfect set up, any longer trumpets then there would not have been the correct gap between horn face and inside of filter.

Are you making use of the gears coming out of the corners? At the weekend I beat my PB by 2 seconds as reference

I have spent 2 seasons perfecting my set up, every 2 races I chop and change to find what best suits me, example a car thats not geo'd and not corner weighted currently will make a car handle like a dog and will make you loose confidence which in turn makes you slower.

I think I need to spend more time on the Geo. I did it with another chap, and neither of us really know what we are doing! I've asked @Ant_Smiggy to help, as he's an expert! although he keep swanning off on holiday!!!

I'm glad you beat your personal best though, mainly cos it means I can get better too, but also it's good for you, well done. I think I'm making use of the gears? After watching a few videos of Tony, who seems to change gear a lot less, i have stopped being so erratic!
 
My car was set up by Mark fish, originally, I then tweeked it with front camber and geo, combe last year I tried racing with toe in to test and it felt pretty good but no where near as what im used to, this season I am running more toe out than I did previously, also I am running a lot more rake than I did last season as well as more castor.

Due to lack of time and funds I have had to test on race days, its a double edge weapon, when it works its great, when it dont, well... Expect disaster.
 
Very Interesting, my car is no where near that bhp yet but still debating what set up to get...bodies (If i can find the money) alos was tempted with the old/new JMS RS2 inlet set up correctly seems to be okay...your thoughts would be good on this.
However just for comparison I currently run around 2.07 around Oulton however this is fighting way through traffic etc etc (you kow how it is on a track day) and not in 'race' also

I cant say how different i found my car after having it set up with camber and corner weighting it made such a difference well worth it, will be doing it again when I move things around and new cage etc etc. @sonny172cup


Well some have had great results with the JMS i lets with 197 cams, however just look at russ, standard engine with 421s and a good map...

When I first had my car corner weighted and set up I was laughing how great it was, You could easily get the rear end out and hold it it was that well balanced ( as an example). Car felt planted and flicked into corners when you want. Remember these cars rears should lively to help turn in.
 
  Clio 172 & BMW 335D
Yeah jsut looking at options at the minute, I think @Scottty4eva who is also joing will be using throttle bodies so will have to see what works better. However it would be nice to have 2 cars that are in the championship with different set ups that are still competative
 
  Clio 172 & BMW 335D
Rs2 is a good option.
The Dunlops do need a good warm up,I'm not weaving about for nothing on the green flag lap, it's because I need to.

Hopefully if all goes to plan with the 2 cars we can have one with a throttle bodies set up and one with RS2 set up - did someone say they are back for sale....?
Like Scotts thread said he is doing a full rebuild mine will just be converted from its currect 'Track day state'

Do you all prefer the Dunlop to the 888? I find the 888 better but have only ever been a passanger when running Dunlop's
 
  Clio 172 & BMW 335D
This is true. But now you have a piece if the dingermobile it's all coming together.
As Tony said, you need to work the dunlops hard on the green flag lap to warm up.
I got caught out a few times so just be ready for it.
You still running the RS2 inlet dinger? How do you find it what sort of power do you get?
 
  Clio 172 & BMW 335D
Not ran the RS2 since last year, I didnt really feel the difference in power btween standard and with the RS2 on there, The way it delivered the power was better.
I wouldnt waste the money again, I'd go straight to throttle bodies

Ahh right okay....would you say they were worth the money? Like I said earlier we might have 2 cars in the championship next year and maybe thinking 2 different set ups
 
  clio cup
@sonny172cup I'll answer your tyre issue simply
You are going a hell of alot quicker than last year and now finding the limit, You were no where near the limit last year.
Told you that gearbox was good, Looks quick in your car.
 
@sonny172cup just wondering what tyres do you run in the wet?
I did a stupidly wet say atangkesey the other day and had federal RSR's and felt that good road tyres may have been better
Just be good to get an idea what you use
@Russ Rallye @Tony Hunter

Rainsports are good in the wet and great value for money as well, but as soon as it starts to dry they will fall apart.

R1R's not quite as good in full wet conditions, but much better when it starts to dry a bit.
 
  Clio 172 & BMW 335D
@dinger thanks for the info and for the attempt at sale...not looking to buy just yet as just getting everything planned I will probably get rid of my RSR first or just destroy them over winter they get some
Yeh I use 888 for dry at the minute and prefer to Dunlop....if that's allowed haha but need to change my wets as RSR are good but not great
 
@sonny172cup just wondering what tyres do you run in the wet?

Iv gone back to running Turbospeeds at the moment, previously was on R1Rs, great tyre but after a few cycles didn't find them great in the wet. I believe they have stopped making them but places like Oponeo should still stock them.

If they did the Eagle F1 Assymetrics A2s im 15s I would be running those.

Rainsports seem to be favoured by most
 
  Clio 172 & BMW 335D
@sonny172cup shat odd do you guys use? I was on a Trackday on Tuesday and my pads gave way (Carbon Lorraine RC6)
Any advice appreciated and have you changed your bias on yours as mine seems very front heavy!
 
I use DS1.11, i use the factory cup set up with no bias, however I have unclipped the spring from the rear actuator so its in constant "up" position, when you lower your car the beam angle changes pulling down on this actuator so it turn putting more braking to the rear (which you dont really want).

When you say front heavy do you mean the fronts lock up easily?
 

EVOgone

ClioSport Club Member
  Pink Cup Racer
To get the best out the brakes you need to get some rear bias, std cup bias is next to nothing and that's why the fronts kill themselves from doing all the work. You can adjust the valve to add some bias bit would just get a separate bias valve. You will be amazed at the difference if set up correctly.
 
September update 2015

Finally got round to ordering a new bucket seat, I went for the Cobra Ultralite, which is a lot better fit than my previous Corbeau Revolution, and also a few KGs lighter too. Along with that I also removed the old OMP subframe and Renault skeleton and welded in some decent rails(used by a lot of the other racers), this are around 3" lower than my previous set up so will lower the cars COG as well as a total of 5.5kg saving

I had fun removing the original Renault frames as you can imagine, paid a mobile welder to come and do the job which was done in a few hours.

I ran out of spray paint so dont judge ;)


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Old side frames fitted a treat

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Tomorrow we will back over to Mark Fish for a corner weight and a geo check up, just ordered some more shims from PMS incase the beam needs tweening. As I suspect it will.

Oh and I left my cut off switch on since Silverstone, now the car is dead as a dodo even after leaving the trickle charger on for 2 days ... Typical.

So nearly all set for Castle Combe this weekend....
 
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