The trials & tribulations of racing a Clio

[Rob Quantrell]

Learnt so much from reading this thread, amazing work!

I’m in Roydon so pretty close to you, would love to pick your brains sometime? I pick up my car this week.

Cheers!

Rob

 

[robzracing]

Learnt so much from reading this thread, amazing work!

I’m in Roydon so pretty close to you, would love to pick your brains sometime? I pick up my car this week.

Cheers!

Rob

Thanks Rob (great name!)

These sites are great for learning stuff aren't they. I think I must be subscribed to about 20 different build threads on here. You can never know enough!

Happy to help if you have any questions. I can't guarantee I'll have all the answers but 2 heads are better than 1. Give me a shout any time.

 

[robzracing]

Not too much to report at the moment although with the pre season test looming mid March I'm going to have to crack on soon. Just snowed under with work at the moment which is not normal for this time of year and I could do without it!

Anyway, a small addition to the weight loss program this week...

Standard Cup spoiler 2.35kg. Fibreglass one 770g. Just a question of whether I bite the bullet and change to the fibreglass bootlid too. If time and money were no object there would be no question but I need to prioritise the work to be done before the season starts.

And in other news, despite my test of the spare starter motor proving it fired up without smoke bellowing out of it, after a couple of hours cursing trying to install it the bloody solenoid is fried and spins the starter up the minute you turn the power on. So back to square one and a new one arrived last week. Just need to muster up the motivation to get it fitted.

 

[Chambers_RS]

Spoiler is nice addition with or without the FG boot I think.
What do you do for living if you don’t mind me asking?

 

[robzracing]

Spoiler is nice addition with or without the FG boot I think.
What do you do for living if you don’t mind me asking?

I have an interior design and refurbishment business with my wife. We do high end interiors and occasionally build houses or renovate old ones.
We designed and built this one which we fiished at the end of the summer. But Kitchens and bathrooms are our bread and butter.

A million miles away from racing Clios!

 

[robzracing]

Finally managed to make some progress this weekend. Starting with fitting the new starter motor which I thought should have been plain sailing but after bolting it up I flicked the kill switch to check it and it engaged straight away and started turning the engine over.
After and hour or so of thoroughly checking the cables for any breaks or shorts I decided to have a closer look at the starter motor in situ.

Very difficult to see from under the car but I finally spotted that the large connector is touching the stud above it. So some careful work with a cut-off wheel in a dremel sorted it and I finally have a car that starts with ease. It's never been as good as it is now since I rebuilt the engine.

Next was a simple job to knock up a new bracket for the air temp sensor after the old one failed at Silverstone last year.

After this and with a car that hadn't started since The Birkett I was able to drive it out and give it a good clean.

And now I can start with the improvements..

I've ordered a T7 lightweight heater to replace the standard one and also a new Cartek XR Battery isolator. This looks simple enough to fit with just one wire running to the ECU to kill the engine, the rest being done by cutting the negative.

So I made a start on relocating the Fire extinguisher external pull to the near side scuttle and this is where I will also mount the external Cartek cut-off button.

4mm Ali plate should be strong enough to reinforce the plastic scuttle cover. It was always a bit ropey when the extinguisher pull was mounted on the other side. When you pulled it the plastic cover just unclipped!

This will be finished off properly when the Cartek kit arrives.

 

[robzracing]

Next big investment is the D2 Dash...

When I remove the dash and heater I will have the unenviable task of picking through the butchered wiring loom to start removing all the unnecessary wiring, fuses and relays.
I'm not an expert at wiring by any means and having inherited the wiring from the previous owner who installed the Emerald ECU it's going to be a voyage of discovery. Starting with removing all of the steering column controls and ignition barrel. My only worry is that I get in too deep to go back and hit a problem that leaves me without a running car on the 22nd March for the pre-season test day.

 

[Sigmamark]

Hi Rob. Car is looking nice and shiny, so where are you testing on 22 March?

 

[robzracing]

Thanks. Photos can be deceiving though!

22nd March is at Snetterton. Its a CSCC test day as our first race is there in April.

 

[Sigmamark]

Photos of my car aren’t deceiving, it looks scruffy and needs some tlc! I’m at Donington the same day, for a first run in the car after installing a new PMS unit, so hopefully I will be ready for the season in Castle Combe Hot Hatch and an occasional run out with the WSSCC. It needs to go well after destroying 2 units last year and only managing 6 racing laps all season! Good luck for the season ahead.

 

[robzracing]

Photos of my car aren’t deceiving, it looks scruffy and needs some tlc! I’m at Donington the same day, for a first run in the car after installing a new PMS unit, so hopefully I will be ready for the season in Castle Combe Hot Hatch and an occasional run out with the WSSCC. It needs to go well after destroying 2 units last year and only managing 6 racing laps all season! Good luck for the season ahead.

Your new engine should be solid. Did you run it in on the dyno or does Nick do that?
I feel your pain re last season. I had one of those a couple of years ago, I think we had 5 race meetings where we didn't get further than qualifying.

Hope it goes well for you.

 

[Sigmamark]

Nick built the unit and I installed it before taking it back down for Sandy Brown to map it. I think we ran about 50 litres of fuel through it before he declared himself satisfied with everything and having arrived at 9am, I left at 5.30pm, so the unit is well run in now and basically just needs fresh oil and filter before the 22nd. The car had so much work done to it over the winter of 2017, it will be interesting to see how it all goes, because other than a very wet qually and 6 laps at Combe, I really haven’t done anything to set it up.

 

[robzracing]

Well, as usual, the so-called small jobs have escalated!

I had always intended to remove the dash over the winter but in doing so it has led on to a far bigger exercise. In removing the dash and of course all the associated dials and controls it became very clear that a rewire was going to be in order. It seemed futile to try and bodge everything back together to make the new digital dash work and in keeping with the ethos behind my car building every job should be an exercise in improvement, completed in the best way my abilities and pocket will allow!

First off, removing the dash with a rollcage in the way was not an was not an easy task...

...and required a bit of persuasion!

An evenings work left it looking like this.

Next was some careful dissection of the wiring...

...to remove the loom which then came inside into the warm to be stripped of unnecessary circuits. @Tomotek's previous work in this area came in very handy!

After a day of pulling this apart a total of just over 2kg of wire and loom tape had been removed!

After that I returned to the interior and continued removing the dash frame and heater box and started to prepare for painting and then installing the new lightweight heater and working out where and how the new wiring will work.

I'm going to take this opportunity to bring the ECU into the cabin as I've never really liked it being in the engine bay but again that is involving another heap of rewiring. So while I'm at it I'm also bringing all the fuses and relays from the engine bay inside too.

So the headache now is working out how best to wire all this up. Whether to retain the UCH or just remake all the wiring for the lights, wipers and indicators which I think is all that's left being controlled in the UCH and then design a new switch panel to replace the column stalks and other controls that were mounted on the dash before. AND fit the new dash, all before the 22nd March.

And finally after a lot of research and asking opinions on various FB pages I have opted for the Aim Strada dash which is far more advanced than the Dash2 but should also integrate with the Emerald K6 more simply, with the added bonus of the VBox data also being integratable into the Aim data logging software.

This is a more expensive option but I don't think I'll regret it.

And finally, all this work did not escape my obsession with weight and everything has been weighed as it has been removed.

The dash, complete with guages etc weighed in at just over 12kg.
Wires removed to date 2.3kg
Heater assembly and blower 6.15kg

I'm happy with this total of 20.45kg, less the new lightweight heater which only weighs 1.2kg.

Lots of wire, fuse box and relay holders have been ordered so more should get done in the week and the dash should arrive midweek too.

 

[robzracing]

More progress today and during last week. After some paint and offering up the Mk1 dash top I can start to visualise where everything will go.

Using the original bulkhead fitting for the heater hoses and mated it with the T7 Bulkhead fitting.

Then fitted the new heater/blower.

To comply with MSA regs these hoses either need to be boxed in or be steel braided so they will be changed shortly.

Then reinstalled the steering column so I could see what space I have for the ducting.

I then started to template for the dash where the AIM will be mounted. Just waiting for the carbon fiber to arrive now.

And today I finished up the ducting connections for the demister which also involved cutting a new slot along the top of the channel that directs the air up towards the screen as the Mk1 dash has vents further towards the front of the car. The existing slots were blocked up and siliconed closed.

 

[robzracing]

Last job today was reinstating the 2 extinguisher nozzles that previously were mounted under the old dash.

A couple more brackets and small jobs to get done tomorrow and then I should be ready to start rewiring.

i made the decision during the week to use a Cartek Power Distribution Panel the same as @pule333. After a bit of messaging he convinced me this will be by far the easiest way to wire everything up. I've gone for the 8 way panel which should be enough for what I need. Sadly I missed the courier delivering it on Friday so I will have it Monday and then I can crack on.

 

[Chambers_RS]

One of the tidiest T7 installs I’ve seen ??

 

[robzracing]

One of the tidiest T7 installs I’ve seen ??

Thanks mate. Probably only 3 options in the way to mount it. I was debating whether to mount it in the scuttle for a bit and just run the ducting into the cabin but that would have meant more coolant hose to run to the new position and also, small though it is I'm trying to keep everything low in the car in the interests of CofG.

 

[Chambers_RS]

Thanks mate. Probably only 3 options in the way to mount it. I was debating whether to mount it in the scuttle for a bit and just run the ducting into the cabin but that would have meant more coolant hose to run to the new position and also, small though it is I'm trying to keep everything low in the car in the interests of CofG.

Yeah there’s not many places to mount them conveniently.
You’ve mounted yours where I had mine in the blue cup shell, which I forgot to remove when I scrapped it ??‍♂️ I never routed the ducting as I couldn’t get it tidy.

 

[Nafoff]

One of the tidiest T7 installs I’ve seen ??

I love how you have utilised the existing location and fitting to take it through the bulkhead. So tidy.
Mark 1 dashes work so well in these and the fact the mount holes basically line up is perfect.

I don't envy you doing a re-wire before March... blimey. Looks like everything is going well though
lovely work mate

 

[nath&alex]

Not too much to report at the moment although with the pre season test looming mid March I'm going to have to crack on soon. Just snowed under with work at the moment which is not normal for this time of year and I could do without it!

Anyway, a small addition to the weight loss program this week...

View attachment 1404779

Standard Cup spoiler 2.35kg. Fibreglass one 770g. Just a question of whether I bite the bullet and change to the fibreglass bootlid too. If time and money were no object there would be no question but I need to prioritise the work to be done before the season starts.

And in other news, despite my test of the spare starter motor proving it fired up without smoke bellowing out of it, after a couple of hours cursing trying to install it the bloody solenoid is fried and spins the starter up the minute you turn the power on. So back to square one and a new one arrived last week. Just need to muster up the motivation to get it fitted.

View attachment 1404780

Out of interest where did you get the starter motor from? ECP? GSF?

 

[RuskiWeldFab]

I love how you have utilised the existing location and fitting to take it through the bulkhead. So tidy.
Mark 1 dashes work so well in these and the fact the mount holes basically line up is perfect.

I don't envy you doing a re-wire before March... blimey. Looks like everything is going well though
lovely work mate

It will be fine for a man of his talents haha can rewire 3 of them by that time haha especially using cartek pdp. More than happy to help. Not that he needs any!

Out of curiosity Rob, why Heater and not heated windscreen?


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[donnylad]

looks amazing rob, very brave being so close to the season. Hope you get it all done in time!

 

[robzracing]

I love how you have utilised the existing location and fitting to take it through the bulkhead. So tidy.
Mark 1 dashes work so well in these and the fact the mount holes basically line up is perfect.

I don't envy you doing a re-wire before March... blimey. Looks like everything is going well though
lovely work mate

Thanks Neil, it seemed to make the most sense keeping the hose routes the same. As I mentioned, the only issue I had with the Mk1 dash is the ventilation slots being closer to the windscreen so I cut a new slot along the top of the metalwork duct. Not the tidiest! It would have been much easier with the screen out!

I'm hoping the wiring will be fairly straight forward now. If I can get it all working ready for the test day I'll be happy even if it needs tidying up at a later date. I've also got a single wiper mechanism to fabricate and install too. I'm not sure my family is going to see much of me over the coming weeks!

 

[robzracing]

It will be fine for a man of his talents haha can rewire 3 of them by that time haha especially using cartek pdp. More than happy to help. Not that he needs any!

Out of curiosity Rob, why Heater and not heated windscreen?


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Maybe not 3 Ilya. 2 possibly!

I will change the screen for a heated one eventually. I had one in my other Clio which worked really well. The heater was the easiest solution short term, as I still want to have the option to blow warm air into the cabin so the rest of the windows don't get steamed up so easily so it made sense to do this first.

 

[robzracing]

Out of interest where did you get the starter motor from? ECP? GSF?

Ebay actually.

Hella Starter 8EA 012 527-881 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Hella Starter 8EA 012 527-881 at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

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[Chambers_RS]

Why not stick the passenger wiper arm on the drivers spindle? Easy singer wiper conversion then.

 

[RuskiWeldFab]

Why not stick the passenger wiper arm on the drivers spindle? Easy singer wiper conversion then.

Not much weight saving. The assembly weights 4.5kg


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[Tomotek]

Fiat uno wiper motor is where it’s at!.. tidy little unit

 

[robzracing]

Currently I've purchased a Renault Laguna rear wiper as one of our competitors uses one and it looks like it works. Only really need one speed as long as there's plenty of RainX on the screen!

If that isn't cutting it then I may look at the Fiat Uno one. The Citroen AX motor is also quite decent. They were single wiper anyway.

 

[Nafoff]

Taking note of all this wiper chat for when I get mine back and we can't find why it keeps blowing fuses

 

[robzracing]

Had a hectic week trying to get the car ready with a long list to get through.

Started with some easy stuff, making up a few brackets and fitting the Cartek isolator.

First up was a mount for the steering wheel connection plug

The isolator couldn't be easier to install. Far easier than the old Cartek ones.

After that, brackets to mount the board to hold the ECU, busbars and any relays etc that might be required. The board has been mounted on rubber bumpers to limit vibration.

After that I took some time to plan the switch layout and designed a panel that will mount within easy reach of the driver while strapped tightly in the seat. The best place for this I found is behind the gear lever and just to the side of the handbrake.
I drew it up in Sketchup first and then 2 days later it was finished.

Needs a bit of tidying up and will probably need a support rod behind it to stop it flexing when the buttons are pressed.

And as I completed this the Cartek PDP arrived. As you can see I appear to be an early adopter of the 8 way model which has just been released.

 

[robzracing]

This weekend has been all about assembly and wiring. With the test day on Friday it's essential I get the car to a point where it starts and runs as soon as possible so I know I'm not wasting my time on the smaller jobs before it goes onto the trailer.
Starting with the EPAS controller and ECU..

Mounted here I've only had to alter the length of one wire. The rest are perfect.

Also mocked up the switch panel position which appears to be just right but definitely needs the support bar behind it which will be done this week.

Then on to the dash which was fairly straight forward. although I needed to make 2 brackets to support the top of the carbon fiber panel as I didn't want it fixed to the dash top.

With everything in place I started the wiring at 6.30 Saturday morning and endured a marathon 2 day wiring session which totalled about 23 hours!

At 7.30 Sunday evening I hit the power button for the first time.

I'm chuffed that it all worked first time. There's still lots to connect though. The ECU comes on and the pumps prime but the starter isn't connected yet so I can't check whether the car fires up. Also, I still have no lights or wipers so the evenings are going to be busy over these next few days!

 

[bloke]

Cartek panel is the way to go. I've got three to do and finally got started sorting the wiring out yesterday, did about two thirds of the rear section day on the couch last night while I was watching telly!!

 

[robzracing]

Right; had a bit of a rollercoaster of a few days before the weekend.
With less than 24 hours to go before the test day I still did not have the dash working with the ECU which was slowing down getting the rest of the items on the list ticked off.
Anyway, Thursday evening I finally received an email from Emerald explaining that AIM had updated their firmware which negated the "AIM" setting in the Emerald software and the solution was now to reset the ECU back to the generic Emerald CAN output. Bingo, that did it!

Then, when finally loading the car on to the trailer it cut out for no apparent reason. Resetting the PDP got the car going again but it happened a couple of times which left me scratching my head as I prepared for the test day that evening.

The trip up to Snetterton was uneventful and I was unloaded and in a garage by 7.30.

Not knowing what the tripping out was being caused by I decided to take the car out on to track to get the measure of it.
2 corners in and the car was cutting out everytime I gave it the beans.

Back to the garage for more head scratching. Unfortunately Ryan, my co-driver on occasion has no technical knowledge so was only good for making tea while I dived into some wiring.
After 15 minutes or so I had diagnosed the swirl pot pump as being the culprit and causing an overcurrent on the ignition circuit. After swapping it onto the main +ve busbar the car was good to go and I went out and finished the session without incident. Not setting any records, as the plan was to start dialing in the suspension throughout the day. However, the car felt very quick so I was happy.
Sadly, suspension became the least of our worries as the electrical gremlins decided to return with reinforcements.

This time the car was only starting intermittently. Most of the time there barely seemed to be enough juice to crank it over with the starter not engaging properly. When it did start it would not idle properly and eventually developed a misfire.
A coilpack change and a swap on to some spare HT leads signalled desperate measures all to no avail. Although at one point it did fire up and behave itself long enough for Ryan to get some laps in before a red flag brought him in only for the car to die again.

So, that was how the day ended for us. 12 laps in total and lots of time in the garage.

Coming home I made a list of things to try...

I'm fairly sure the problem is either earth related or poor cable. The main lead from the battery isn't new and I wonder whether it is breaking down. I'm also not sure the Cartek XR isolator is right for the car. The kill signal that it uses to kill the ECU doesn't work with the Emerald so it already needs modifying. I may sell it on and use their GT isolator instead.
The car also needs some new HT leads. Although these were new last June, 2 of them had broken inside the coil pack and there was evidence that one of them had been sparking and getting hot.

So, 2 weeks to the first race and I'm not where I wanted to be. I also have very little time to work on the car over the next couple of weeks so Snetterton has a big question mark over it at the moment.

Finally, a friend of ours graced us with his presence at Snetterton, turning up in his historic, 1957 Porsche 956 rally car.

And there was some nice machinery out on track too.

And finally new race number for this season..

To go with this.... Which I'm happy with considering I only entered half of the races last year!

 

[Nafoff]

FRUSTRATING
But stick at it mate, you have come through worse. I wouldn't even know where to start with wiring issues...

 

[robzracing]

FRUSTRATING
But stick at it mate, you have come through worse. I wouldn't even know where to start with wiring issues...

Definitely frustrating.
The wiring has been a learning curve and still one that I'm on!

My only hope is that I'll solve it by process of elimination but time is ticking to the first race. I'm thinking it might be a last minute entry if I make it at all.

The car was running nicely when it was behaving and was feeling quick. But there's a lot more to do with the suspension still as it's still very lively at the rear which is making turning in to a corner with confidence tricky.
That's what I was hoping we'd be working on last Friday.

There's another test day on the friday before the race weekend but it's all money I was hoping not to have to spend! Still, I've got a load of spares I need to get on here to sell. That will help!

 

[Brucefil]

Definitely frustrating.
The wiring has been a learning curve and still one that I'm on!

My only hope is that I'll solve it by process of elimination but time is ticking to the first race. I'm thinking it might be a last minute entry if I make it at all.

The car was running nicely when it was behaving and was feeling quick. But there's a lot more to do with the suspension still as it's still very lively at the rear which is making turning in to a corner with confidence tricky.
That's what I was hoping we'd be working on last Friday.

There's another test day on the friday before the race weekend but it's all money I was hoping not to have to spend! Still, I've got a load of spares I need to get on here to sell. That will help!

Like I've said before I must be your cousin from the land of OZ, my first race meeting this year was destroyed through electrical issues and 3rd gear gone. Just having the gear box rebuilt again, new clutch and total rewire behind the firewall. It's not fun

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[robzracing]

They say racing is 95% frustration and 5% jubilation don’t they?


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[robzracing]

This could be the cause of my problems!

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[RuskiWeldFab]

This could be the cause of my problems!

View attachment 1412107



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Damn... is that the positive from battery? Or to Cartek?


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