Upgrade to Espace (2 Pot) Calipers

[SmokeyTheBandit]

Nice one smokey the proof will be when the scenic disks go on and then you will know for sure.

How does the thickness of the scenic disks you plan on fitting compare to disks fitted standard on the espace.

Have you tried checking what other variants the calipers come on, you might find them on a another sport model and more than likely there will be better pads offered which would be a win win ( I realise your not interested in peak performance for yourself)

The scenic/172/182 discs are 24mm and the discs from the espace are 28mm.
I haven't found any other variants, and don't see the point searching for some other models. The Renault Sport models are allot rarer here that they are in the UK so spare parts are rather expensive (wich spoils the point). In my opinion you should just go with the 197/225 calipers if you want peak performance.

 

[SmokeyTheBandit]

I got some more information about the pads. I translated the hard parts :

Delphi LP1695
Jurid 573058J

These pads are also used on :

- NISSAN : 41060-00QAE
- OPEL : 4414021 - 4414519 - 9199257 - 93173641
- RENAULT : 6025 371 279 - 7701 050 914 - 7701 054 771
- VAUXHALL : 6025371279 - 6025371662 - 7701050914 - 7701054771 - 9199257 - 93173641

NISSAN PRIMASTAR bus (X83)
2.0 (120Pk) - van 03-2001 tot vandaag
dCi 100 (101Pk) - van 03-2001 tot vandaag
dCi 120 (114Pk) - van 09-2006 tot vandaag
dCi 140 (135Pk) - van 09-2003 tot vandaag
dCi 150 (145Pk) - van 09-2006 tot vandaag
dCi 80 (80Pk) - van 03-2001 tot vandaag
dCi 90 (90Pk) - van 09-2006 tot vandaag

NISSAN PRIMASTAR bestelwagen (X83)
2.0 (120Pk) - van 02-2003 tot vandaag
dCi 100 (100Pk) - van 09-2002 tot vandaag
dCi 120 (114Pk) - van 09-2006 tot vandaag
dCi 140 (135Pk) - van 09-2003 tot vandaag
dCi 150 (145Pk) - van 09-2006 tot vandaag
dCi 80 (82Pk) - van 09-2002 tot vandaag
dCi 90 (90Pk) - van 09-2006 tot vandaag

OPEL/VAUXHALL VIVARO open laadbak/chassis (E7)
1.9 DTI (101Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.0 16V (120Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.0 CDTI (114Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.0 CDTI (90Pk) - van 01-2006 tot vandaag
2.0 ECOTEC (117Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.5 CDTI (114Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.5 CDTI (146Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag

OPEL/VAUXHALL VIVARO Combi (J7)
1.9 DI (80Pk) - van 08-2001 tot vandaag
1.9 DTI (101Pk) - van 08-2001 tot vandaag
2.0 16V (120Pk) - van 08-2001 tot vandaag
2.0 CDTI (114Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.0 CDTI (90Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.0 ECOTEC (117Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.5 CDTI (114Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.5 CDTI (146Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.5 DTI (135Pk) - van 05-2003 tot vandaag

OPEL/VAUXHALL VIVARO bestelwagen (F7)
1.9 DI (80Pk) - van 08-2001 tot vandaag
1.9 DTI (101Pk) - van 08-2001 tot vandaag
2.0 16V (120Pk) - van 08-2001 tot vandaag
2.0 CDTI (114Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.0 CDTI (90Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.0 ECOTEC (117Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.5 CDTI (114Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.5 CDTI (146Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.5 DTI (135Pk) - van 05-2003 tot vandaag

RENAULT ESPACE III (JE0_)
2.2 dCi (JEOS) (115Pk) - van 07-2000 tot 07-2002
2.2 dCi (JE0K) (130Pk) - van 10-2000 tot 10-2002
3.0 V6 24V (JE0G, JE0R) (190Pk) - van 10-1998 tot 10-2002

RENAULT TRAFIC II bus (JL)
1.9 dCI 100 (101Pk) - van 03-2001 tot vandaag
1.9 dCI 80 (82Pk) - van 03-2001 tot vandaag
2.0 (JL0A) (120Pk) - van 03-2001 tot vandaag
2.0 16V (117Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.0 dCi 115 (114Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.0 dCi 90 (90Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.5 dCi 135 (JL0D) (135Pk) - van 05-2003 tot vandaag
2.5 dCi 145 (146Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag

RENAULT TRAFIC II open laadbak/chassis (EL)
1.9 dCi 100 (ELOC) (101Pk) - van 03-2001 tot vandaag
1.9 dCi 80 (ELOB) (82Pk) - van 03-2001 tot vandaag
2.0 (ELOA) (120Pk) - van 03-2001 tot vandaag
2.0 dCi 115 (114Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.0 dCi 90 (90Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.5 dCi 135 (ELOD) (135Pk) - van 03-2001 tot vandaag
2.5 dCi 145 (146Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag

RENAULT TRAFIC II bestelwagen (FL)

 

[SmokeyTheBandit]

Even better update now !! Its finally here :drunk:

 

[Rob]

Sod work and get it fitted then.

If these go under 15's and don't cause problems, they will be a thing of legend and minstels will write songs about you.

There was was a man named smokey
Who found the most awesome brakes
They run out of puff at a trackday
The pads turned out to be fakes

 

[SmokeyTheBandit]

Sod work and get it fitted then.

If these go under 15's and don't cause problems, they will be a thing of legend and minstels will write songs about you.

Lol nice !:lolup:

 

[MartinR]

Do what Rob said stuff work and get them on..

 

[Lorenzoeurope]

watching this thread, thinking doing it to my Megane Coupe 2.0 as the from discs and callipers are the same as the 172 so this should work for me and where I work it should be a very cheap upgrade when my front discs and pads need changing.

 

[hilldawg172]

Get them on in your lunch break lol.

 

[SmokeyTheBandit]

Get them on in your lunch break lol.

I work in Amsterdam and live 70km's from there .... lol
Challenge not accepted :rasp:

 

[Lal B3N]

Right matching the dimensions I have found these brake pads, they are from a Espace 3.0d apparently.

EBC Brake Pads

OE Pads - DP1353
Green Stuff - DP21353
Red Stuff - DP31353c

I will dig out the part numbers for matching discs.

 

[SmokeyTheBandit]

Right matching the dimensions I have found these brake pads, they are from a Espace 3.0d apparently.

EBC Brake Pads

OE Pads - DP1353
Green Stuff - DP21353
Red Stuff - DP31353c

I will dig out the part numbers for matching discs.

The dimensions of the compound are pretty close but the bracket itself is realy different.

 

[Lal B3N]

I'll be able to order a set at work and trial them, if they don't fit its cost me nothing.
Need some calipers first haha

 

[SmokeyTheBandit]

The Brembo P68026 pads are a direct fit = now confirmed !

 

[syko6288]

You got these fitted yet smokey ??

 

[SmokeyTheBandit]

You got these fitted yet smokey ??

I haven't got time for this until saturday morning im afraid :dapprove:

 

[syko6288]

I may have found some uprated pads just got to do a little more research

 

[syko6288]

Greenstuff dp21461 pads match the measurments of the brembo pads

 

[MartinR]

These ones? Spot on with dimension Syko

£72.13 here..

http://www.ruderacing.co.uk/Brakes-...-02)/c1697_15130_23271_23335_23366/index.html

 

[syko6288]

yeah thats the ones they match the dimensions in the link few pages back

bit cheaper on ebay

 

[SmokeyTheBandit]

yeah thats the ones they match the dimensions in the link few pages back

bit cheaper on ebay

How are the greenstuff pads when it comes to performance, are these really worth it ? These are almost 3 times the price i paid for the brembo's.

 

[syko6288]

Not used them before but am just flicking through to find peformance pads that can be used as an option

 

[sinnie92]

is it me or are those 2 pot calipers rare as rocking horse s**t on ebay...

 

[Junior Bear]

No doubt they will be after this discovery


No feedback as to wether there is a vast difference in braking power compared to Standard set up as yet though


Really eager to find out, I don't trust the brakes 100% on the standard setup, it just doesn't feel enough

 

[Lal B3N]

No there's a few on there, just got to know where to look ha.

 

[Lal B3N]

No doubt they will be after this discovery


No feedback as to wether there is a vast difference in braking power compared to Standard set up as yet though


Really eager to find out, I don't trust the brakes 100% on the standard setup, it just doesn't feel enough

Thats because hes not fitting them until tomorrow, so you'll be waiting a little while yet.

 

[syko6288]

is it me or are those 2 pot calipers rare as rocking horse s**t on ebay...

Dont just look for espace callipers there is a fair few on there

 

[Rob]

No doubt they will be after this discovery


No feedback as to wether there is a vast difference in braking power compared to Standard set up as yet though


Really eager to find out, I don't trust the brakes 100% on the standard setup, it just doesn't feel enough

I have to admit, I never understand this comment unless you're heavily modified and tracking the car?

From experience, a clio with brembo discs, ds2500 pads, braided lines and brand new fluid will stop perfectly fine, even when at quite some silly speeds. Overall, the braking when really pressing on was considerably better in the Clio than it is in my z4.

The upgrade is great for two things, looks, and hopefully minimising fade after serious abuse.

 

[SmokeyTheBandit]

I don't think Renault would design a few different calipers for the same pads....

Its highly possible that these calipers can be found on these models aswell :
Copied from the list two pages ago.

RENAULT ESPACE III (JE0_)
2.2 dCi (JEOS) (115Pk) - van 07-2000 tot 07-2002
2.2 dCi (JE0K) (130Pk) - van 10-2000 tot 10-2002
3.0 V6 24V (JE0G, JE0R) (190Pk) - van 10-1998 tot 10-2002

RENAULT TRAFIC II bus (JL)
1.9 dCI 100 (101Pk) - van 03-2001 tot vandaag
1.9 dCI 80 (82Pk) - van 03-2001 tot vandaag
2.0 (JL0A) (120Pk) - van 03-2001 tot vandaag
2.0 16V (117Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.0 dCi 115 (114Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.0 dCi 90 (90Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.5 dCi 135 (JL0D) (135Pk) - van 05-2003 tot vandaag
2.5 dCi 145 (146Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag

RENAULT TRAFIC II open laadbak/chassis (EL)
1.9 dCi 100 (ELOC) (101Pk) - van 03-2001 tot vandaag
1.9 dCi 80 (ELOB) (82Pk) - van 03-2001 tot vandaag
2.0 (ELOA) (120Pk) - van 03-2001 tot vandaag
2.0 dCi 115 (114Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.0 dCi 90 (90Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag
2.5 dCi 135 (ELOD) (135Pk) - van 03-2001 tot vandaag
2.5 dCi 145 (146Pk) - van 08-2006 tot vandaag

But ALWAYS check/compare the part numbers on the calipers at all times !!!

The wait is almost over, hang in there

 

[syko6288]

The comon one ive found for uprated pads is the avantime 2.0 turbo / 3.0 v6

 

[SmokeyTheBandit]

The comon one ive found for uprated pads is the avantime 2.0 turbo / 3.0 v6

Top gear should have some calipers in thats case.
From there Avantime tuning project where they uprated the brakes to get it arround the track in a surtain time.

 

[syko6288]

Did think that but i remember clarkson saying that they were a few grand lol

 

[SmokeyTheBandit]

Did think that but i remember clarkson saying that they were a few grand lol

Thats true but the ones that got replaced are the ones youre looking for

 

[Chip-mk1]

1 * 54mm piston in the 172 is 10% smaller than 2*40mm in the espace 2 pots.

What that means, is that for the same amount of clamping force on the new disks you will need 10% more pedal movement, and hence you will shift the brake balance rearward slightly.

Given that there is now more leverage on the front, it will hopefully more or less come out in the wash though, but just something to be aware of, as these cars generally dont like move brakes on the rear.


So it will be interesting to see how they actually perform.



Probably not a great combination for trackdays on the basis its a load more unsprung weight just to get better braking that isnt really required as decent pads on the 172 setup works so well anyway, but will be ideal for road cars where you can now get away with using a less racey pad and the disks will last longer etc.


Bonus they fit under 15" rims too

 

[Andrewclio]

1 * 54mm piston in the 172 is 10% smaller than 2*40mm in the espace 2 pots.

What that means, is that for the same amount of clamping force on the new disks you will need 10% more pedal movement, and hence you will shift the brake balance rearward slightly.

Given that there is now more leverage on the front, it will hopefully more or less come out in the wash though, but just something to be aware of, as these cars generally dont like move brakes on the rear.


So it will be interesting to see how they actually perform.



Probably not a great combination for trackdays on the basis its a load more unsprung weight just to get better braking that isnt really required as decent pads on the 172 setup works so well anyway, but will be ideal for road cars where you can now get away with using a less racey pad and the disks will last longer etc.


Bonus they fit under 15" rims too

would changing the mc to a larger one improve the pedal travel?

 

[Chip-mk1]

would changing the mc to a larger one improve the pedal travel?

Yes it would, but it would still potentially suffer from the increase in rear bias due to the increased piston cross sectional area on the front only, although as already mentioned, hopefully 10% will not be too bad.

Ive done similar conversions on lots of other cars and if you go too big on the pistons, the pedal just feels horrible and spongey, V6 brakes on a corsa for example do that, likewise the bigger mondeo calipers onto a fiesta.

 

[SmokeyTheBandit]

Yes it would, but it would still potentially suffer from the increase in rear bias due to the increased piston cross sectional area on the front only, although as already mentioned, hopefully 10% will not be too bad.

Ive done similar conversions on lots of other cars and if you go too big on the pistons, the pedal just feels horrible and spongey, V6 brakes on a corsa for example do that, likewise the bigger mondeo calipers onto a fiesta.

To be exact the pistons are 1x40 and 1x45 on these. Lets see how it goes can always get a espace/grand scenic/scenic mc.

 

[Chip-mk1]

To be exact the pistons are 1x40 and 1x45 on these. Lets see how it goes can always get a espace/grand scenic/scenic mc.

Ah, thats slightly worse again then, apologies for the wrong info I was going by the numbers in that previous thread.

1*40 and 1*45 is more than 20% bigger than the 172 1*54mm, so will need 20% more pedal travel, and hence move 20% more fluid to the rear for any given amount of pad movement on the front.

 

[SmokeyTheBandit]

Ok, what are the options for a upgraded mc then Chip.
Are the ones from a espace/scenic a direct fit and if so wich ones suits this setup best ?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Sorry mate, havent tried personally any bigger ones on the clio so cant answer that.

Try it first with the standard one and see if you hate the reduced pedal feel or not, its only 20% at the end of the day so you might not really mind it.

 

[SmokeyTheBandit]

What was your experience on the corsa Chip? Did you realy notice the extra pedal travel and how much of a difference did that upgrade give (even more than the 20%?) ?