Will we ever have another car with such good performance v cost? (172/182)

[F&B]

My Cup -

0-60 6.4
138mph top speed
33mpg average on my stop-start to work, 43mpg on a long run, high 20's even when roasting it. (was less on track though).
£350 insurance
£140 for a pair of tyres
£210 tax (this is the worst bit, will be rising too)
It might rattle a bit, but I've found it very reliable
Most jobs can be easily undertaken yourself - I've done battery, suspension, brakes, exhaust (not all of that was on mine, but experienced doing it on a mate's 172)
Average service is less than £200

How will we ever beat that level of performance for the cost? 197s look really great, and I think they have more road presence than pictures alone suggest, but the running costs *seem* higher from what I've worked out.

Will I be driving my Cup forever!

 

[riz]

Mini Cooper S Turbo?

Agreed when i had my 182, for what i got the cost was minimal compared to others

 

[Fletcher]

I feel the same way about my 172, so much fun and performance for the money.

I don't ever intend on selling her

 

[Dafthead]

No it'll never happen again ever

 

[The Chubby Pirate]

My Cup -

0-60 6.4

From where do you get your figures matey?

 

[daydotz]

oil burners ftw

 

[Se7en172]

Without a doubt yes! If companies wish to push their sports models in the future, and judging by the climate in terms of road tax, and fuel prices price Vs Economy is going to have to be considered. I feel that car producers are gonig to be plowing money into making their sports cars more fuel efficent with less carbon emission, it's the only way forward for them, otherwise they will see their sales figures plummet. I would be looking in the direction of the Soon to come Fiat range as well, looks like your answer could lie there.

 

[daydotz]

im sure i herd vag are designing new tdi lumps which may be worth considering in the future

 

[JonC]

Although not as practical, I fancy a Lotus Elise S2 after the the Trophy. Its even faster and better on fuel and at my age, not much more to insure.

 

[DrR]

Panda 100hp

But seriously 500 abarth has potential to be good.

 

[gaz44]

No intentions of selling mine after 5 years. It still ticks all the boxes. There ain't many cars that come close imo, for performance/fun v cost.

 

[F&B]

My Cup -

0-60 6.4

From where do you get your figures matey?

I think 6.4 originally came from an Evo test, but without digging the magazine out the other source found so far would be - http://www.letstorquebhp.com/fwd.asp

But it's all estimates/perfect starts etc.. but the original question still stands - they are awesome for the money

 

[Paul RN]

From where do you get your figures matey?

I think 6.4 originally came from an Evo test, but without digging the magazine out the other source found so far would be - http://www.letstorquebhp.com/fwd.asp

But it's all estimates/perfect starts etc.. but the original question still stands - they are awesome for the money

letstorguebhp base all figures on theoretical statistics rather than actual performance.

 

[dutch182]

My Cup -

0-60 6.4
138mph top speed
33mpg average on my stop-start to work, 43mpg on a long run, high 20's even when roasting it. (was less on track though).
£350 insurance
£140 for a pair of tyres
£210 tax (this is the worst bit, will be rising too)
It might rattle a bit, but I've found it very reliable
Most jobs can be easily undertaken yourself - I've done battery, suspension, brakes, exhaust (not all of that was on mine, but experienced doing it on a mate's 172)
Average service is less than £200

How will we ever beat that level of performance for the cost? 197s look really great, and I think they have more road presence than pictures alone suggest, but the running costs *seem* higher from what I've worked out.

Will I be driving my Cup forever!

cant be that cheap otherwise you would have paid to be a forum member?:rasp:

 

[djdrastic]

I think those EVO figures are a bit off , but I've been having the same problem.I need to replace my 182 soon and I can't really find something that can replace it easily.Everything seems to be priced to the moon and turbocharged these days.

 

[Peperami]

From where do you get your figures matey?

I think 6.4 originally came from an Evo test, but without digging the magazine out the other source found so far would be - http://www.letstorquebhp.com/fwd.asp

But it's all estimates/perfect starts etc.. but the original question still stands - they are awesome for the money

That evo test recorded 6.5 secs. Nitpicking, but hey.

Vx220/ elise was my other thought for money vs performance, lighter weight makes them even better on fuel.

That or a trophy...

 

[Paul RN]

Although not as practical, I fancy a Lotus Elise S2 after the the Trophy. Its even faster and better on fuel and at my age, not much more to insure.

Coming from a Lotus certainly faster and lighter, but higher running costs. The problem is suspension components are almost consumable, grippy tyres but fast wear rates, short service intervals (mine was 6k, most are now 9k) and upgrades which are always very attractive!

 

[F&B]

My Cup -

0-60 6.4
138mph top speed
33mpg average on my stop-start to work, 43mpg on a long run, high 20's even when roasting it. (was less on track though).
£350 insurance
£140 for a pair of tyres
£210 tax (this is the worst bit, will be rising too)
It might rattle a bit, but I've found it very reliable
Most jobs can be easily undertaken yourself - I've done battery, suspension, brakes, exhaust (not all of that was on mine, but experienced doing it on a mate's 172)
Average service is less than £200

How will we ever beat that level of performance for the cost? 197s look really great, and I think they have more road presence than pictures alone suggest, but the running costs *seem* higher from what I've worked out.

Will I be driving my Cup forever!

cant be that cheap otherwise you would have paid to be a forum member?:rasp:

Yeah, have been a member last couple of years, just expired though - need to renew.

I really don't want this thread to be a dreamers list of theoretical stats, but I stand corrected on the Evo time being 6.5 - http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cardata/?cat=hot_hatches&page=2&sort=id&order=asc

Aside from that, I really do think I'm keeping the car for at least another 2 years (I've owned it for 2 already, and it's my second Cup, my third Clio)

 

[Peperami]

Although not as practical, I fancy a Lotus Elise S2 after the the Trophy. Its even faster and better on fuel and at my age, not much more to insure.

Coming from a Lotus certainly faster and lighter, but higher running costs. The problem is suspension components are almost consumable, grippy tyres but fast wear rates, short service intervals (mine was 6k, most are now 9k) and upgrades which are always very attractive!

Interesting to know mate, as pending trying out the getting in/ out thing, considering either a vx or trophy as my next car.

Reckon the vx will cost more to run once consumables are taken into consideration?

I thought tyres/ parts lasted forever as the car is lighter, meaning less stress on parts, and also on the engine?

 

[jayxx83]

I would agree, they are insanely good value for money. I'm just stockpiling cash now waiting to pick up a cheap proprety in a few months time instead of changing my car.

 

[jester2k]

my s2000 was quite good, cheap to run and cheap services too.. but could have a habit of eating rear (£120 each) rears for breakfast.

 

[darren_rallye]

172s are excellent VFM

 

[john.med]

I was thinking exactly the same thing today F&B. Was sat behind a grey Megane Sport thinking how much I'd like one ar a new car. Then started to think how big and heavy the current line up of cars are becoming. The price of fuel, tax etc etc.

If I had some more wedge and wasn't saving right now I'd really like a BMW 1 series coupe, a powerful diesel with that regenerative braking thing or maybe even a current Cooper S.

As it goes I think they'll have to prise my fingers from my 172's steering wheel in my old age.

 

[Paul RN]

my s2000 was quite good, cheap to run and cheap services too.. but could have a habit of eating rear (£120 each) rears for breakfast.

Handling on the limit isn't great and are known for hedge tendencies. Engine will run forever and look great.

 

[Phill1978]

mazda 2 mps

to be fair most peoples 197`s are doing 23-26mpg aswell.

ive had enough of paying for the sportiest model now, its just throwing money away ive only cained my meg twice in the last fortnight.

 

[F&B]

Yeah that's the thing, I could go and buy something new, but I'm a sucker for value. Also, I've strayed away and sold a Cup once, and even though I've experienced cars with miles better build quality, and some that are quicker, none have been as cheap to run and also none have given me the same feeling of involvement and sensation of connection between steering wheel and front tyres.

I think I might spend a few pennies on the car just to keep it feeling fresh, maybe some Recaros....?

 

[DrR]

mazda 2 mps

Forgot about that one, drove a 1.5 one and i quite like it actually

 

[Šįk]

vxr220 turbo?? or non turbo.... both r far faster and very cheap for performance... look gr8 2!!

 

[F&B]

vxr220 turbo?? or non turbo.... both r far faster and very cheap for performance... look gr8 2!!

Yeah, they are nice to look at too - a guy at work had one. But then here comes the other thing, I have a 4 year old and the Clio can carry the whole family as well!

I'm sitting quite happy here having repeatedly talked myself out of chopping it in for something newer! I remember a time when I was always thinking about what car I could get next and didn't even care how much it cost

 

[Phill1978]

vxr220 turbo?? or non turbo.... both r far faster and very cheap for performance... look gr8 2!!

my mate had a yella 2.2 na with black wheels in town he was getting 21 mpg !

repair and parts can be expensive to get sorted. roof leaks etc..

i guess the lad want something pratical too and insurance is grp 16 i belive.

 

[Šįk]

lol spose ohwell.... tht wud of been ur best bet i wuda thort...

back in the day ay lol.

 

[djdrastic]

Damn jester , the s2k is one of a few cars , that has made my shortlist so far.Also on the Mazda 2,please somebody teach Mazda about steer and brake feel.I test drove a Mazda 3 MPS recently , and as seriously sickingly quick as it was , you would need seriously big gonads to drive that thing near its limits.It felt like wrestling a gorilla in the slow corners.Scared the s**t out of me.Might have near 911 in-gear figures , but didn't inspire me to chuck it into any corner honestly.

Regarding the MPS 2 , have they decided on the power outputs ? The net has all sorts of strange figures ranging from 150 - 240 BHP the last time I checked (That said the last time I seriously checked it out was last year or so)

 

[Paul RN]

Coming from a Lotus certainly faster and lighter, but higher running costs. The problem is suspension components are almost consumable, grippy tyres but fast wear rates, short service intervals (mine was 6k, most are now 9k) and upgrades which are always very attractive!

Interesting to know mate, as pending trying out the getting in/ out thing, considering either a vx or trophy as my next car.

Reckon the vx will cost more to run once consumables are taken into consideration?

I thought tyres/ parts lasted forever as the car is lighter, meaning less stress on parts, and also on the engine?

Tyres like 888/A048s have fast wear rates (6000 miles, or as low as 1500 if you believe what some people post) and with the aggressive suspension on a Lotus that helps make them handle makes then stick like glue which means they wear fast as suspension components are under stress. Ball joints are common to wear quickly, cheap enough but a pain to fit. Suspension normally only lasts around 40k. Regular geos can be common as its far more adjustable than most cars, meaning it gets knocked out quite easily.

Light car, aggressive suspension, wide sticky tyres = difficult in the wet as they aquaplane.

Certainly less stress on the engine as the chassis is streets above the powerout put from the engine, hence so many people do TT conversions or Type R conversions. http://www.hondaelise.com/

VX pretty much the same (made at the Lotus factory in Norfolk for Vauxhall) better engine (turbo is far better than most Elise models), slightly heavier, same chassis. Not as popular as Lotus and due to people being badge snobs.

Biggest different will be insurance, most Lotus are group 20 whilst the main VX is group 16.

Getting in and out easy once you get used to it, even girls in skirts can do it (just). Plenty of clubs and information from very passionate people

www.vx220.org.uk/
www.seloc.org

 

[TidyRach]

I couldnt believe how fun & quick they are for the money! But I do only have the 172 so it was cheap!

 

[JON13S]

i too have had the chop the cup in thoughts but alas i cannot bring myself to do it. its the only car i've ever owned that i want to look after.

am currently saving for a mile munching car to run alongside just to save the clio the punishment.

oh my god i'm sad........................

 

[H182]

Im glad other people think the same. I don't know what else I'd have for similar money!

 

[Dafthead]

mazda 2 mps

Forgot about that one, drove a 1.5 one and i quite like it actually

105Bhpm For me, it was faster round a tight track than a 160Bhp Mx5

And more fun!

 

[martandem]

No it'll never happen again ever

LOL, eternal optimism!
But unfortunately i share your ethos....
Love the car (but for the little rattles and quirks) and i don't think we will ever sell it, especially after owning it from new...
Unless it starts blowing up all the time obviously!

 

[Nomad]

RS Twingo?

 

[MillerLight]

Its unlikely but tbh. They don’t cost much at all to run regarding its fun factor and performance but in 5-6 years time if you get hit my a new car you will die or get seriously injured.

Car safety and design is moving on so much (hence increased weight of all new cars, higher bonnets for pedestrian safety etc etc) that all the crumple zones are being moved and strengthen and if a 2012 clio was to hit head on a 2002 clio I think the 2012 will prob flatten it.

Making the appeal of keeping one (to me at least) drop a lot.