Big brakes using Renault parts?

[GodSpeed]

Have seen several conversions on 172/182 cars using Brembo calipers from 197/225 Clio and Megane. The problem seem to be the standard disc diameter is to small making the manufacturing of the adapter hard. I have seen a solution for this, and looking in the exploded views for the Twingo R2 I can see the solution is taken straight from the gravel setup for this car (attached image) So thats for using standard 280mm discs, but I want to go bigger than that, standard solution seems to be using Scenic 300x24mm discs. But those are a bit to thin to be ideal and still have vents from the outside.. Was thinking about AP racing discs and making own bells, but then I saw the tarmac discs for the R2, 300x27mm and the bolt patern seems to be the same!!


Maybe even the R2 adaptors and the discs will be bolt on to a 172/182??

 

[Tony Hunter]

Interesting.

 

[mr.pink87]

If the Twingo R2 hub is the same as the 1*2 hub, this should be a straight fit. Might be quite expensive with Renault Motorsport parts. What's wrong with the 225 calipers, adapters (like the ones from NOOS) and standard discs? The Clio is a pretty light car that doesn't need a massively big braking system imo.

 

[GodSpeed]

If the Twingo R2 hub is the same as the 1*2 hub, this should be a straight fit. Might be quite expensive with Renault Motorsport parts. What's wrong with the 225 calipers, adapters (like the ones from NOOS) and standard discs? The Clio is a pretty light car that doesn't need a massively big braking system imo.

Imo the 1x2 dont need bigger brakes so much because it lacks power as because of heat issues and bad modulation. Price of the r2 solution may be bargain compared compared to other serious solutions avaliable. Like Tdf at 2100 and Ap racing åt 2500...

 

[GodSpeed]

Btw hubs are NOT the same as Clio 1x2 but the caliper spacing may still be the same, would be very happy if someone could confirm this.

Was about to send an email to R-sport asking for prices but their website seem to be kind of f**ked so cant get any info from there

What thickness are standard Clio 197 / Megane discs?

 

[George@RTR_Parts]

Clio 197/Megane 230 front discs:


312x28mm mate

 

[GodSpeed]

Clio 197/Megane 230 front discs:


312x28mm mate

Thanks,

Have thought about making own bells and using the "KTR 2 Piece Grooved front discs" but I have a feeling the R2 disc would be a better choice if avaliable. Anyone know who manufactured the KTR discs?

A bit distrubing when looking at the exploded views at renaultsport.com all brembo calipers have different numbers, twingo, Cup, R3 all of them are different

KTR discs: http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=2720&catid=&appid=12&pic=3

 

[GodSpeed]

Are R-sport the ones distributing Renault Racing parts in the UK? If so can someone provide me with their e-mail adress?

 

[p@blo]

Btw hubs are NOT the same as Clio 1x2 but the caliper spacing may still be the same, would be very happy if someone could confirm this.

Was about to send an email to R-sport asking for prices but their website seem to be kind of f**ked so cant get any info from there

What thickness are standard Clio 197 / Megane discs?

R2 calipers 7711162814 & 7711162815 & R2 hubs 7711162913 & 7711162914

Assume the w/b are a similar length/ball joint dia to the clio 2? No ARB listed-do they not run one?

Price estimates I have seem very low :S Be interested to hear how much they come back at.

R.sport Ltd
Unit 9
Nelson Trading Estate
Wimbledon
London
SW19 3BL

Phone: 0208 540 7366
Fax: 0208 542 9672

 

[rich-6]

Just been browsing 133.net

Apparantly the twingo uses a laguna caliper on the RS at least,

it must be off a different model mind as its 56mm piston bore and the clio one is 57mm or the other way round.

now IIRC the clio uses laguna calipers too

 

[GodSpeed]

Just been browsing 133.net

Apparantly the twingo uses a laguna caliper on the RS at least,

it must be off a different model mind as its 56mm piston bore and the clio one is 57mm or the other way round.

now IIRC the clio uses laguna calipers too

Clio Sport Calipers are 54mm mate

No e-mail for R-sport? Will cost me a fortune to call them on daytime from here...

 

[p@blo]

Here you go: r_sport_uk@hotmail.com

 

[GodSpeed]

Here you go: r_sport_uk@hotmail.com

Thanks

 

[p@blo]

No worries, did you still want the manual for the dampers too? I didnt end up mailing it to you did i. PM your email if so.

 

[GodSpeed]

No worries, did you still want the manual for the dampers too? I didnt end up mailing it to you did i. PM your email if so.

Yes please, Pm sent

 

[James105]

Interesting! I have my Brembo callipers just sat here on my desk waiting for me to make up the adaptors, so this could be a good route!

 

[GodSpeed]

Prices each inc VAT are:

Calipers: £250
Brackets: £145
Discs: £185

Calipers are cheap, discs are ok I guess but brackets are a joke

 

[1812lsd]

Are the Espace 2.0L Brake Caliper (6284-2) a straight swap? iirc you just need to find bigger disks & pads.
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...-2-pots-calliper-for-clio-172-182-Small-price

 

[mr.pink87]

Are the Espace 2.0L Brake Caliper (6284-2) a straight swap? iirc you just need to find bigger disks & pads.
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...-2-pots-calliper-for-clio-172-182-Small-price

No proper racing pads available for these calipers afaik.

 

[GodSpeed]

Had a very interesting discussion with some folkes racing Twingo R1/R2 today. The center of the discs and bolt spacing is confirmed to be the same. Same thing with boltspacing caliper to hub 142mm just as the clio. It looks more and more as this kit may be plug and play on a Clio 172/182.

Still have a few things to check though such as the part number of a standard Twingo Sport hub and the offset between caliper mounting surface and the disc mounting surface. If that measurement is the same im 100% certain it will be plug and play.

 

[trickznoodle]

So the Brembos from the 197 should be a straight fit to the R2 Terre/Asphalte setup?

 

[GodSpeed]

So the Brembos from the 197 should be a straight fit to the R2 Terre/Asphalte setup?

I’m not 100% certain of that… yet.

Have got the measurements required to know, just need to find the time to check on my car. But most likely they will fit. However part id of the Clio caliper is not the same as on the Twingo R2, may still be the same item though. Or some minor change such as different piston size.

 

[trickznoodle]

This may help for future parts codes references:

Higher rez

 

[Keith185]

Looks very interesting

 

[GodSpeed]

Here comes a picture of the 300x27 R2 Evo Tarmac discs. Discs are produced by AP and have curved vanes (side specific)

 

[GodSpeed]

Offset between disc mounting surface and caliper mounting surface is 60mm = same as on Twingo R2.

Distance between center of driveshaft to the center of each caliper mounting bolt is 100mm = same as on Twingo R2.

Spacing between caliper mounting bolts are 142mm = same as on Twingo R2.

Brake disc is confimed to be plug and play on Clio hub so I can now confirm this kit is plug and play on a Clio 172/182.

Just call R-sport and order.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Can you just clarify what this kit would give you?

Twingo R2 calipers - are they AP Racing 4 pots? Or same as the 197/200?
Then you'd get Twingo R2 discs and some adaptor brackets for the calipers and it all bolts straight onto a Clio 172?

If the discs are 300mm though will they fit under 15" wheels?

I'm kinda tempted but at £580 it's roughly the same price as any other 4 pot kit for the clio

 

[Andrewclio]

580 quid is much cheaper than nearly 2 grand for a ap racing setup! This is defiantly going on my to do list good fine there Godspeed!

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah I suppose it is still £140 cheaper than a wilwood kit. I don't think you can really compare it to a £2k setup that uses discs and rotors that are bigger though. Surely with 4 pots and 300mm discs it's more comparable to the wilwood setup?

I'd be very interested if there was a setup that used the standard discs as apparently 300mm means 16" wheels - and I want to keep my 15's

 

[Ryan218]

Phil, the R2 gravel setup uses 280mm discs! so just make sure you order the gravel spec caliper brackets and discs! I'm unsure whether the calipers are AP or Brembro.

 

[Andrewclio]

I know they use 15inch wheels for gravel.

 

[GodSpeed]

Can you just clarify what this kit would give you?

Twingo R2 calipers - are they AP Racing 4 pots? Or same as the 197/200?
Then you'd get Twingo R2 discs and some adaptor brackets for the calipers and it all bolts straight onto a Clio 172?

If the discs are 300mm though will they fit under 15" wheels?

I'm kinda tempted but at £580 it's roughly the same price as any other 4 pot kit for the clio

This kit uses Brembo 4-pot calipers that are visually the same as on Clio 197/200, 300x27 AP discs with vents from the inside and curved vanes in the discs. I am very certain this kit will not fit under 15inch rims. As you can see in the attached image the Evo tarmac setup uses 16inch rims with ET45.

The kit should be much more powerfull than a Willwood setup due to bigger pad surface and bigger discs + it has way better odds to handle the heat. Willwood pad area is actually smaller than OE pads.

300 is probably close to what will fit under 16inch rims, rather certain Clio 197/200 size of 312mm would not fit.

TDF Alcon kit is £2100 inc VAT

AP Racing £2400

This kit £1200

 

[Andrewclio]

I think it would be a lot cheaper to buy the discs and adaptors, then source your own calipers from eBay.

 

[BrianB]

Prices each inc VAT are:

Calipers: £250
Brackets: £145
Discs: £185

Is that per side?

 

[GodSpeed]

I think it would be a lot cheaper to buy the discs and adaptors, then source your own calipers from eBay.

Maybe so, but not much. I have been lookin into that option as well. Just write Hi-Spec and ask what they will charge for custom bells and adapters. £200-250 for the calipers of ebay. This is no hazzle plug and play, thats worth something to.

Is that per side?

Yes

 

[Cup_Phil]

Ahhhh right ok - that's per side and I didn't realise they were huge brembo 300mm
In that case you're right that is pretty good competition for the AP racing kit

I'll stick to the £640 wilwood setup then because I don't really need that amount of stopping power and need to keep 15's

 

[GodSpeed]

Brake parts Twingo R2
Part	EN description	ItemNr	pcs	Price a piece ex VAT
Disque AVG AP Ø300X27	Disc	7711167475	1	153,48
Disque AVD AP Ø300x27	Disc	7711167476	1	153,48
Etrier AVG	Caliper	7711167539	1	208,46
Etrier AVD	Caliper	7711167540	1	208,46
Support étrier AV Asphalte	Caliper bracket	7711167480	2	120,82
Vis CHC M14x150-80	Caliper bolt	7711167479	4	3,96
Vis CHC M12x125-45	Bracket bolt	7711160599	4	5,10
Rondelle contact Ø12x24 ép:1.8	Washer	7711156931	4	0,20

Thought I posted the full specification of items required earlier in the thread. Obviously I did not... Well here it is, all the parts you need except for brakelines and pads.

 

[GodSpeed]

I think it would be a lot cheaper to buy the discs and adaptors, then source your own calipers from eBay.

Now I read a bit closer

Yes thats what I thought aswell, problem is R2 Evo Brembos dont have the same itemID as the ones used on the Clio R3. Most likley the only differance is piston size no pads included or maybe they have identical calipers listed but with differnt item Id. But it is hard to be sure about that.

Worst case scenario a standard 197 caliper wount fit the brackets, hard to tell.

 

[Andrewclio]

I dont think they would design and make a completely new caliper just for the r2, also it would make sense to have small piston size on a larger disc than they have on the r1 with the clio calipers,

Would it be possible to speak to the twingo race/rally team and see if it is a r3 caliper or not?

 

[GodSpeed]

I dont think they would design and make a completely new caliper just for the r2, also it would make sense to have small piston size on a larger disc than they have on the r1 with the clio calipers,

Would it be possible to speak to the twingo race/rally team and see if it is a r3 caliper or not?

Thats how I got all the mesurements, from a Finnish rally/rallycross team. I have one little clew what may differ, got a hint from post 17 in this thread: http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...for-Brembo-s-Megane-225-(Clio-2-and-Twingo-RS)

He explains in what way the clio 197 calipers must be modified to take standard Clio 172/182 280x24 discs. These discs are used on Twingo and on Twingo R2 Gravel setup. If you take a look at the exploded view of the R2 Evo setups you can see both a gravel setup and a tarmac setup, and both use the same caliper!!! This leads me to think the R2 Evo calipers will have some minor modification equal to the one described in the link above. May be far fetched but seem logic since the RIKUS setup is a straight copy of the R2 Evo setup.

EDIT: But that would be a minor problem since it would probably meen a milimeter or two would need to be skimmed of the bracked instead to use 197/200 calipers.