BIGASH/FF-Racing X85 Clio Cup Racer Project

[Toastfrenzy]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Hmmm....can all this be put in the std clio (jc5?) box......worth even thinking about or too much cost involved for the car? Watched the silver fiesta (in cscc tintops) dog box changes round brands, looked good.

 

[2Damnsly Andy]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Big monies though.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Probably worth a thread on it's own - this gearbox discussion

James - glad it's not the box and just the clutch. Weird for it to fail though as it was nearly new. Matt given you a cause?
Are you running a heat shield to stop that quickshift expanding next time or swapping for something else?
I was gonna ditch the heat shield on mine as it's a bit rattly and would give me room to fit an extra silencer - but worried about my gear shift doing the same thing now lol

 

[Jay Payne]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

I was gonna ditch the heat shield on mine as it's a bit rattly and would give me room to fit an extra silencer - but worried about my gear shift doing the same thing now lol

Never had a problem with ours

 

[Jay Payne]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Getting it rebuilt by Agency every 5 minutes is a cheap way of doing things for sure, but rather inconvenient if it goes pop during a race, a trackday is bad enough!!

Ours was rebuilt back in April 2011 and was fine all season, 6 races. im pretty sure these boxes will give a warning if its about to go. Like James says, rebuild every year if racing isnt a bad idea

 

[Silent_Scone]

Forgive me for causing trouble but would the scrutineers be none the wiser if you chopped a vag box in there?

Im not suggesting you do I know neither of you are daft, just curious

 

[Jay Payne]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

No but another competitor could lodge a protest. Its called cheating. Rules say original engine and box so thats what you run. There are only a few rules and thats one of them

 

[Silent_Scone]

Protest innocence.


VTEC is cheating too

 

[Jay Payne]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Protest innocence.


VTEC is cheating too

factory fit iirc.

 

[mark123]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

IIRC the tin tops rules are:

Original silhouette
Orig gearbox
Orig engine
Same induction system - but fuel injected cars may be fitted with throttle bodies

Not sure exactly what that means though, is the original casing (in the case of a gearbox) but internals free to change?

 

[JackJack]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Not sure exactly what that means though, is the original casing (in the case of a gearbox) but internals free to change?

Correct.

That's my interpretation anyway.

 

[EVOgone]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Gripper diff with 5.2 final drive and gripper shafts, run this in my Pink 240bhp rallycar (very sucessfully)........if the regs allow this its alls you need. It will transform your car and less than 2k (not including the shafts).

Dog or straight cut gearset is the way to go for performance vs cost.

 

[IcemanUK]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

I think I would be VERY unhappy if I bought an original Ferrari 599 that had seats in it out of a Fiesta and Renault gearbox internals . Original to me means what rolled off the line at the end of the day.

 

[shiftspark]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Positive update coming this evening when I get chance

Does that mean now 01.45....

 

[BIGASH]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Haha what timing I'm just writing it lol! Need to load the photo's so guess it'll be another hour!

 

[shiftspark]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

No worries i am here all night, but cant see pics at work :dapprove:

 

[BIGASH]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

There is only one interesting picture anyway Shall I text it over to you?

 

[shiftspark]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Not allowed mobile in work either...I can wait 'till tomorrow.Do you need a tent ?

 

[BIGASH]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Dohhh lol! I do yes But I have realised that my little brother is away on Holiday so I think I will go to his house and pinch it lol! (It's not the one pictured in the trackday thread )

 

[BIGASH]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Pre-During-Post Anglesey:

So before we went upto Anglesey I had been prepping the car from after the race at Brands. As most of you know I'm pretty clueless with spanners. Below are the pictures from the few bits I had done before the trackday that I wrote up the other week.

Removing the old studs

Using the bolts as a puller to get the seized bearings off

Before

After

172 v's 182 stub axle

20mm spacers were too much

Urgent wiring bodge by me

I got the car loaded up the night before to aid the early set off and when loading it onto the trailer the clutch pedal snatched which seemed odd so I called Matt, obviously very difficult for him to diagnose over the phone so I just crossed my fingers and hoped. We got upto Anglesey for 7.30am and got the trailer unloaded, the weather was amazing and it was set to be a great day. There had been a lot of worrying that the day would be too busy but this simply wasn't the case. I had an instructor booked for the full day and was looking forward to learning lot's in advance of the race in June.

I got out on track for the sighting laps at 9 and immediately was having clutch slip, this was also present for the 5 or so laps at Brands but I just put it down to being hot although Matt thought it might be release bearing. I was quite worried by this but came back in afterwards and just hoped it would be okay. We then went out for a few laps and the slip wasn't really occurring which was good and I felt quite happy but then the linkage started to seize up due to the heat from the exhaust warming up the ball in the Yanoo linkage, I was then really struggling with 3rd and 4th gears and although it wasn't crunching it just didn't want to select. Sometimes this was accompanied with crunching and then after a few times of letting the car cool down it finally packed in and wouldn't select any gear. It was only an issue at full load and high RPM which confused me and after a chat with Tony I went off to check the mounts and a few other things. Nothing was found so the decision was taken to pack up and not risk damaging the gearbox anymore. With the nice weather the car had been overheating also. When loading the car onto the trailer smoke was coming out from the front grill and I thought it was going to catch fire.

It was another frustrating day really and it got me down after all the hard work I had put in to get the car ready

It was obvious looking back that the explosion 5 laps before the end with the clutch pedal dipping and also then slipping wasn't the arch liner but an issue with the gearbox. Matt did say he thought there was an issue with it but I didn't want the cost of taking it all out just incase but instead lost out all the money on the day so my own fault and yet another lesson learnt. Unfortunately there is no real video to show but my friend got a couple of photo's from the few laps I did

Matt had very kindly offered to open up at 7am for me to drop the car off on my way to watch Burpspeed at Silverstone so I got up at 3am and went to drop the car off. Had an awesome day at Silverstone and it re-vigorised my motivation to get the car fixed asap. I spoke with Matt on Monday and mentioned that ideally I would like the car to be ready for the 6th June for the Burpspeed trackday as this will be my only time in the car before the Anglesey race. Matt had planned sometime for the Thursday to work on the car and get the gearbox sent to be sorted but what with the bank holidays this wouldn't of been ready in time. I got a phone call on Tuesday morning from Matt while I was driving up the M40 to say that the box was out and the problem determined, the explosion had been the clutch pressure plate had shattered when I pulled the clutch out at the end of the main straight at Brands. This meant that the shards of metal had been skipping around the bell housing for the remainder of the race, all the times it was moved on and off the trailer and for geo ect and also 20-30 odd minutes of track driving at Anglesey. This meant that the bel housing was quite scored but luckily still useable and the gearbox went back in Tuesday afternoon all sorted and the car will now be ready for Llandow The picture below shows the clutch pressure plate that came out and this is know to be cause by not heel and toe'ing, I was confused by this as I do heel and toe but looking at the data I give the car way too many rev's on down change which does just as much damage.

I will be collecting the car from TDF en-route to Llandow on Wednesday and can't wait to get back on track! It will be an awesome day with so many CS'ers going and I think we all owe Tony and Jay a massive thank you for organising it!

I will now be doing a full days testing at Anglesey the day before the race to do setup work and now learn the track properly so will be interesting to see the difference between test and track days. Also I have sorted out the rest of the budget for the season today and calculated costs. As long as we have no major failures then we will be doing a test mid August at Mallory and then the race there, Donington race and also Oulton Park. I will decide in October weather or not to do the TDT race at Brands which is in November.

Thanks for reading as always and I look forward to letting you know how I get on at Llandow.

James

 

[Chip-mk1]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Glad you are managing to sound a bit more upbeat now mate

Fingers crossed all goes well at llandow.

 

[Kenny.s]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Nice write up James.

What have you done to stop the gear linkage being effected by the heat?
Haven't heard of this problem before, does your exhaust run particularly close to the linkage or is there no heatshield around that area?

 

[IcemanUK]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Re-Vigorised James? I like the sound of that, Where can I buy some? I don't heel and toe yet (got to learn that next) What clutch were you running? I am fitting a new paddle clutch with the new gearbox but have a helix organic in at the moment.

 

[Toastfrenzy]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Good write up James, hope all goes well at Llandow or you.

How does the damage occur when not matching revs to speed when downshifting? Don't heel and toe myself (never tried) and always 99.999% of time try to match speed\revs through braking....not changing gear to early @ high revs (with maybe a blip at the end of braking, if time) - I can't see how damage like that can happen - mating faces yes. Never taken a clutch out\gearbox or engine out etc.

May be I need to get a donor car to practice on after both yourself and Burpspeed have had to check\take their GB's out recently.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Wow - you did a proper job of that clutch!!!

I must be lucky - I'm terrible at heel+toe and my clutch is 60k old lol
Can't believe you did those sessions at anglesey with those bits of metal rattling around the box - that could have gone really badly!

 

[Tony Hunter]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Good write up James, hope all goes well at Llandow or you.

How does the damage occur when not matching revs to speed when downshifting? Don't heel and toe myself (never tried) and always 99.999% of time try to match speed\revs through braking....not changing gear to early @ high revs (with maybe a blip at the end of braking, if time) - I can't see how damage like that can happen - mating faces yes. Never taken a clutch out\gearbox or engine out etc.

May be I need to get a donor car to practice on after both yourself and Burpspeed have had to check\take their GB's out recently.

The property of matter by which it retains its state ofrest or its velocity along a straight line so long as it is not acted upon by an external force.

an analogous property of a force: electric inertia.
​

See, simple.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Good write up James, hope all goes well at Llandow or you.

How does the damage occur when not matching revs to speed when downshifting? Don't heel and toe myself (never tried) and always 99.999% of time try to match speed\revs through braking....not changing gear to early @ high revs (with maybe a blip at the end of braking, if time) - I can't see how damage like that can happen - mating faces yes. Never taken a clutch out\gearbox or engine out etc.

May be I need to get a donor car to practice on after both yourself and Burpspeed have had to check\take their GB's out recently.

The property of matter by which it retains its state of rest or its velocity along a straight line so long as it is not acted upon by an external force

an analogous property of a force: electric inertia.
​

See, simple.

 

[Toastfrenzy]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

what, so i guess you don't know either???

FFs if you don't know, we're all doomed.

Or are you saying in a roundabout way that it spins and the act of pressing the clutch in is enough to cause it to shed parts\bits of metal?

Double tap? Learn that in the FI?

 

[BIGASH]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Glad you are managing to sound a bit more upbeat now mate

Fingers crossed all goes well at llandow.

Thanks mate I'm sure it will!

Nice write up James.

What have you done to stop the gear linkage being effected by the heat?
Haven't heard of this problem before, does your exhaust run particularly close to the linkage or is there no heatshield around that area?

Nothing in all fairness, we are swapping out the the Yanoo kit for the standard kit to eliminate it for now and then we will play around with it once we get the car reliable It run's quite close because of the relocated gear linkage and also no heat shield. Will see how it performs at Llandow and then work out a solution depending

Re-Vigorised James? I like the sound of that, Where can I buy some? I don't heel and toe yet (got to learn that next) What clutch were you running? I am fitting a new paddle clutch with the new gearbox but have a helix organic in at the moment.

Haha yes much better now thanks Mark It was just running an OE spec clutch, are you getting the one from K-tec with the Ally billet pressure plate? If so will be interested to see how you get on

Good write up James, hope all goes well at Llandow or you.

How does the damage occur when not matching revs to speed when downshifting? Don't heel and toe myself (never tried) and always 99.999% of time try to match speed\revs through braking....not changing gear to early @ high revs (with maybe a blip at the end of braking, if time) - I can't see how damage like that can happen - mating faces yes. Never taken a clutch out\gearbox or engine out etc.

May be I need to get a donor car to practice on after both yourself and Burpspeed have had to check\take their GB's out recently.

Thanks Pete

I'm not too sure haha, it has been explained to me a few times by various people but I don't understand I think it's just the snatching still which causes it. I'm not too sure myself in all fairness but I will work on getting the matching perfect and hopefully shouldn't be an issue again

I'm also on the lookout for something super cheap but always seem to miss them and want to get something I can sell at a profit after I have played lol!

Wow - you did a proper job of that clutch!!!

I must be lucky - I'm terrible at heel+toe and my clutch is 60k old lol
Can't believe you did those sessions at anglesey with those bits of metal rattling around the box - that could have gone really badly!

What can I say I try my best lol

I think it's just the fact it was getting abused for 40 mins non stop in the race and all getting pretty hot!

I know :S one chunk of the metal tried to make a bid for freedom from the gaiter for the clutch fork so that would of gone straight through the bonnet

The property of matter by which it retains its state ofrest or its velocity along a straight line so long as it is not acted upon by an external force.

an analogous property of a force: electric inertia.
​

See, simple.

Lol! I agree

 

[Tony Hunter]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Almost the same as revving it to 6k and dropping the clutch all the time. Get it.

What they teach you boys at school these days.

 

[Toastfrenzy]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

gotit, fanks....(left school at 15 so must've missed that lesson and others...) i'll pass the lesson on to Sam too....

 

[Sir_Dave]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

If you heel & toe properly when you change down, there is little to no additional strain on the clutch/box whether you change at 1k revs, or 6k revs - as everything is matched together. For example, if i change down from 3rd to second there should be no 'jolt' for passengers, it should be all one smooth motion.

If you change down without rev matching, you are obviously putting a massive strain on the drivetrain, which is obviously felt by the passenger when they bang their head on the dashboard. As Tony says, it is like repeatedly dialling in 6k and side stepping the clutch - its not gonna last very long lol.

In addition, by using heel & toe, you can change down at the same time as braking, allowing you to brake later & deeper into the corner, aiding weight transfer and subsequently giving more front end grip when you need it, ie when turning into the corner. Mastering H&T is essential in getting a good lap time imho.

And it makes you french tin can last a little longer

 

[Toastfrenzy]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Great info - start , cheers

I've started this thread for more info

 

[Chip-mk1]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

When you arent heal and toeing if you just let the clutch pedal back up slightly slower you'll drastically reduce the shock loads on the clutch cover even when using an uprated friction surface.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

What can I say I try my best lol

I think it's just the fact it was getting abused for 40 mins non stop in the race and all getting pretty hot!

I know :S one chunk of the metal tried to make a bid for freedom from the gaiter for the clutch fork so that would of gone straight through the bonnet

Fecking hell!!

I had a big chunk of clutch let go in an old 309 and it made a nice big hole in the side of the gearbox

 

[Tony Hunter]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

what, so i guess you don't know either???

FFs if you don't know, we're all doomed.

Or are you saying in a roundabout way that it spins and the act of pressing the clutch in is enough to cause it to shed parts\bits of metal?

Double tap? Learn that in the FI?

No, it's when you let the clutch out, then hits flywheel and they are not doing the same speed. A bit like putting your hand in a spin dryer.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

Proper job of that James! Glad it's all sorted

 

[Yanoo]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

The ball joint housing is made of alloy, the alloy have a relatively bad thermal expansion coefficient. In normal case (linkage far from the exhaust, applied heat shield etc.) the shift force remains in a narrow range, determined by the 4 allen bolts despite the various temperature of the car, exhaust & ambient. That's fact that it must be protected from excessive heat, otherwise the alloy collar dilates and causes heavier shift force. Every 0.1 mm inside the alloy housing has noticeable effect on stiffness. If you set up the base tightness loose (bolts are just tightened, no appreciable stiffness caused by the housing) when the exhaust is cold, it should have enough room to dilate when the exhaust gets very hot (without heat shield) and it should not effect too tight linkage. If you have any observations, please let me know. Thanks!

 

[Tony Hunter]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

The ball joint housing is made of alloy, the alloy have a relatively bad thermal expansion coefficient. In normal case (linkage far from the exhaust, applied heat shield etc.) the shift force remains in a narrow range, determined by the 4 allen bolts despite the various temperature of the car, exhaust & ambient. That's fact that it must be protected from excessive heat, otherwise the alloy collar dilates and causes heavier shift force. Every 0.1 mm inside the alloy housing has noticeable effect on stiffness. If you set up the base tightness loose (bolts are just tightened, no appreciable stiffness caused by the housing) when the exhaust is cold, it should have enough room to dilate when the exhaust gets very hot (without heat shield) and it should not effect too tight linkage. If you have any observations, please let me know. Thanks!

Helpful as always Yanoo.

 

[Nafoff]

Re: James/BigAsh 182 Race Car by TDF... It doesn't get much better than this! *Pic He

good to see you are now alot more positive mate,
sounds like you are going to have a great time on wednesday... jealous