BIGASH/FF-Racing X85 Clio Cup Racer Project

[pingpong]

View attachment 86539

This is my Dash 2 loom if it is of any interest (un shrouded). It retains all the signal leads, Analogue inputs, switch & switch common lines and its own earth and switched power supply. Terminated with a ITT Neptune 19/19 connector. The harnesses in the car are entirely modular so this is an example of that approach - they all terminate at the fuse box. I have included all of the above (less some of the signal wires such as RPM / wheel speed) for future proofing, but I will send oil temp / pressure directly to the dash as I don't see the value of it logging wise - the oil pressure performance can monitored ok through alarms in my opinion but can see the value of logging if you can support it. Other ECU data such as RPM/wheel speed is sent via the CANbus - (although technically the screen is not true CAN as it only displays recieved messages via addresses.)

The second connector in the harnesses it the switch panel breakout (for dash buttons.)

 

[BIGASH]

No mate, would be through the laptop or gauges at the mo unfortunately. Needs the laptop for NoS (joking )

Yes I would just run up a couple of gauges like Phils then Bloody NOS lol

View attachment 86539

This is my Dash 2 loom if it is of any interest (un shrouded). It retains all the signal leads, Analogue inputs, switch & switch common lines and its own earth and switched power supply. Terminated with a ITT Neptune 19/19 connector. The harnesses in the car are entirely modular so this is an example of that approach - they all terminate at the fuse box. I have included all of the above (less some of the signal wires such as RPM / wheel speed) for future proofing, but I will send oil temp / pressure directly to the dash as I don't see the value of it logging wise - the oil pressure performance can monitored ok through alarms in my opinion but can see the value of logging if you can support it. Other ECU data such as RPM/wheel speed is sent via the CANbus - (although technically the screen is not true CAN as it only displays recieved messages via addresses.)

The second connector in the harnesses it the switch panel breakout (for dash buttons.)

Very nice mate that looks great I want your loom! You do know that even if you wire a sensor into the dash on the 4 inputs it will still send it though to the logger and record the data. I was surprised but my oil temp sensor of the one time it worked has actually logged even though it's wired straight into the dash.

I can't remember if I asked you the other day but are you running EC1 or 2?

My theory behind logging the oil pressure is to see where and if oil surge is going to be an issue certainly if the car is going to be on slicks at any point in the future.

 

[pingpong]

Designing the loom is not difficult, it just takes a lot of time to work out what signals you want where - and how to bundle it all together to make a neat harness.

When I make them I do all sorts of daft drawings that work for me - then I peg out the harness exactly as I want it - this also lets you check lengths / step back and think!

View attachment 86544View attachment 86545

Car has a EC1.

Interesting regarding the dash / logger communications - that means there is outgoing comms via the RS232 serial.. will investigate...

Sensible with oil data I agree; a lot of the other data is only useful for fault diagnosis in the grand scheme of things I would expect.

 

[BIGASH]

It looks great and I would love to have a go but I wouldn't be able to do it without guidance throughout lol. Very impressive skill mate

Ah okay just wondered due to number of inputs you can have on the ECU

I don't know to be fair mate but I have to presume it does as I say the sensor is wired to the connector on the dash but the one time it worked it was logging it on the data which I too found odd.

Yes quite a lot of it is but handy to look back at in some cases

 

[pingpong]

Well I assume you are using the RT serial cable with a branch for the ECU & logger - that will be how the comms are being sent; I just don't know full details, but I will look into it.

Oh you can also see my cardboard switch panel in the above photo

 

[BIGASH]

Yes it is an RS232 Y cable

Haha yes I had clocked it in the photo you sent the other day Looks great, look forward to seeing the car! You heard about the new race series that our cars are eligible for? I don't think it is CSCC from what i've heard though

 

[Jonny1*2]

when you wire into the designated ports with a supply like oil pressure/temp etc, how does the ECU know what it's reading? I presume it just recieves a certain voltage? But that can come from various sensors. Which part of the 'system' differentiates the information? From looking over the EC1 manual last night, it doesn't give you the abbility to say that the information coming in is from a specific sensor. Always been curious

 

[Gray]

Having a change of direction and got a degree in construction property management so looking down that avenue at the moment but the market is still tough and trying not to move out of the area but will see what happens

Check out this link... http://www.urscorp.com/Careers/index.php

I work for URS, we are BIG in construction, engineering, design etc.

I always thought you worked in I.T for some reason?!

 

[BIGASH]

when you wire into the designated ports with a supply like oil pressure/temp etc, how does the ECU know what it's reading? I presume it just recieves a certain voltage? But that can come from various sensors. Which part of the 'system' differentiates the information? From looking over the EC1 manual last night, it doesn't give you the abbility to say that the information coming in is from a specific sensor. Always been curious

I can't remember the details and don't want to give you false information but on the variables table you can go to sensor coefficients or something like that and vary the resistance depending on the type of sensor been used. I have read it in the manual and think it was fairly near the back so it does say somewhere Sorry I can't be of anymore help!

Check out this link... http://www.urscorp.com/Careers/index.php

I work for URS, we are BIG in construction, engineering, design etc.

I always thought you worked in I.T for some reason?!

Thanks for the link mate I will keep checking on it

Haha no i'm not good with IT stuff lol

 

[A2ON]

Im finding reading this thread really interesting .

I hope things all work ok mate.

Hope you save the pennies to do it !

 

[chrispy.clio]

Dear God!!! You have had some bad luck over the last few months! Thats all i will say about that.

However looking forward its great to see you out there driving your car! Lol i've driven my car about 2 miles in 2 years, starting to think if i will even remember how to drive it fast!!

Hopefully 2013 will be a better year for you, I plan of finishing mine in January so i'll be at some track days around the country, hopefully they coincide with a few of your test days or something.

 

[BIGASH]

Im finding reading this thread really interesting .

I hope things all work ok mate.

Hope you save the pennies to do it !

Thanks mate will just have to see what happens

That's the problem now but as always will do my best and see what I can do

Dear God!!! You have had some bad luck over the last few months! Thats all i will say about that.

However looking forward its great to see you out there driving your car! Lol i've driven my car about 2 miles in 2 years, starting to think if i will even remember how to drive it fast!!

Hopefully 2013 will be a better year for you, I plan of finishing mine in January so i'll be at some track days around the country, hopefully they coincide with a few of your test days or something.

Haha yes its not been plain sailing

Haha thanks it's all your fault anyway that I even did all this to my car lol! I bought a standard clio to use on track days, then saw your thread and got carried away, then saw the Burpspeed thread and started racing! I wouldn't change any of it to be fair though

Yes thank you and that would be great, be good to see yours in person getting some miles on it round track!

 

[chrispy.clio]

Oooops so your wallet is much lighter because of The Burpspeed boys and me lol. Well like i said hopefully some more luck in 2013 for the both or us!

 

[BIGASH]

Lighter.. the damn thing is empty lol! Spent 7 times what I budgeted haha! Still as I say great fun year and can't wait for more racing Yes I will keep my fingers crossed for that

 

[Sir_Dave]

Spent 7 times what I budgeted haha!

Lol, can i suggest that if you're considering smashing out any more money on this thing James, you should seriously consider having a chat with Sandy Brown about building an engine for you - especially if you want to play with the integra

If he can get 210bhp ATW from a 1.6 106 gti engine, im sure he'd do something decent with an F4R ... If fact, he's probably already playing with one.

 

[BIGASH]

Yes Dave I certainly had no intension of overspending so much and the last few months of pretty much re-doing the whole car really hasn't helped lol! Unfortunately there isn't the money to smash into it, I have still got to work out some way to get enough money to get the car sorted for next year It certainly isn't a cheap hobby!

Yes heard many good things about Sandy Brown. The engine spec I would like to go with isn't going to be up rivalling the integra but it will work well with the car and should be a good compromise between cost, reliability and power. Fred has transformed the car for me over the last few months and has been really good to me. I don't have a bad word to say about him and have the confidence he is the right person to build me a cracking engine My job now is to get the money together to actually get the car out racing as at this rate its going to be sat in the garage for a year !

 

[Jonny1*2]

When you say you over spent by 7 times mate, does that include the initial build or do you mean the season budget?

 

[Cup_Phil]

Haha thanks it's all your fault anyway that I even did all this to my car lol! I bought a standard clio to use on track days, then saw your thread and got carried away, then saw the Burpspeed thread and started racing! I wouldn't change any of it to be fair though

Hahahah I literally did the same - bought a 172 cup thinking it'd be fine in standard'ish form to do track days - sat and read Chrispy's thread front to back and went out and bought bodies and went nuts lol

Chrispy has a lot to answer for!

 

[Cup_Phil]

My job now is to get the money together to actually get the car out racing as at this rate its going to be sat in the garage for a year !

You should partner up with another driver
There's not many people who can run a tin top car on their own

 

[BIGASH]

When you say you over spent by 7 times mate, does that include the initial build or do you mean the season budget?

No mate basically I budgeted to spend X and the total that I have spent on the car and running it is 7 times X I haven't totted it up for a while though so could be even worse

Hahahah I literally did the same - bought a 172 cup thinking it'd be fine in standard'ish form to do track days - sat and read Chrispy's thread front to back and went out and bought bodies and went nuts lol

Chrispy has a lot to answer for!

Haha he certainly does!

You should partner up with another driver
There's not many people who can run a tin top car on their own

Yes mate I certainly want to but would be difficult to work out what would be fair due to the vast amount of money that has been wasted so working out a true value on the car etc

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yeah I can see that being a big issue.
If I wanted to partner you for example, I would want to agree a value up front that I owed you if I wrote the car off. Not an easy thing to decide on now though considering it must owe you about five or ten times what it's actual value is as it stands.
And realistically you should probably demand that amount handed over to a neutral 3rd party to ensure you have access to the funds if the worse did happen.
Mechanical stuff I guess you just agree to go halves on, bodywork damage down to whoever is in driving seat.

Potential for a massive fault out is huge!

 

[BIGASH]

Yes exactly mate and what it's now worth as a car isn't what it would cost to start from scratch again if it got written off so its a really difficult one!

Yes I think you are right about mechanical vs bodywork stuff but as you say would be difficult to make work overall

 

[msa197]

Start all over again?

could easily sell your shell!

 

[BIGASH]

Thought about selling the shell but again sell the shell and would still need more money spending on another shell on top of what I sell it for so going to keep this one and just work through my list of jobs on the car as and when I can afford to! Fingers crossed that is in time for next season

 

[Chip-mk1]

I see no point in selling a good shell tbh.

 

[BIGASH]

I agree which is why I have changed my mind but my shell is v.heavy which is why I was thinking about it

 

[Chip-mk1]

Whats making it heavy? The cage must be a factor I assume? Thats probably weight worth putting up with if it means that you can use it for more than just tintops by making it eligible for 24 hour racing etc.

Other than that, can you lose the rest of the excess weight you feel it has?

 

[msa197]

I agree with you about the shell, only said cause you had thought about selling.

 

[BIGASH]

Cage is very heavy yes, it is however very strong but in hindsight some of it isn't required and also has been done in large diameter CDS tube, the bigger the diameter then the wall has to be thicker so consequently its a heavy bugger! Other ways to reduce weight are composite panels and removing underseal etc from the car but too expensive to do really so just going to stick with it as is

 

[BIGASH]

I agree with you about the shell, only said cause you had thought about selling.

Ahh yes I thought could sell and remake been lighter and not cost any extra than the sale but after chatting with a few people it would cost a fortune more on top

 

[Dan519]

only way to make it lighter is remove things, you'd have to do the same on another shell. Don't follow your logic about even thinking of changing, just get stripping down to every last nut and bolt, remove anything surplus to requirements, and put it back together

 

[BIGASH]

It's just the weight saving by swapping cages that appealed to me and that is easier on a new shell but yeah too much hassle! Yes that is in progress as we speak Dan the clio doesn't even resemble a car anymore now lol

 

[Sam@NP]

Is it worth acid dipping the shell then building back up, like Danny said going through every single nut and bolt to see whats not required.

Im sure Zoltan can make you a fibreglass roof.

 

[BIGASH]

Is it worth acid dipping the shell then building back up, like Danny said going through every single nut and bolt to see whats not required.

Im sure Zoltan can make you a fibreglass roof.

The money is crazy to do it properly Sam! That's what I wanted to do and then the shell is ready for years to come but ask Fred when you see him how much I said it will cost! It's nuts

Reg's dont allow us to get them mate

 

[Chip-mk1]

Is it worth acid dipping the shell then building back up

I see no point in him doing that at this stage, he needs to worry more about getting it back together and using it than saving a few kgs I reckon. He can currently improve more than that car can, thats the sort of thing to do on the next build once this one gets written off, lol

Im sure Zoltan can make you a fibreglass roof.

TIN tops mate, the clue is in the name

 

[Sam@NP]

My farther recons that in the 80s it only cost them £300 to dip and paint a shell. I guess inflation is a b**ch.

 

[BIGASH]

At least 40kg's to save chip by dipping it!

 

[Dan519]

just been back for a look at the original cage pictures. IMO there's about 15-20kg of extras that could be cut out without compromising safety. That would be a nice improvement

 

[BIGASH]

My farther recons that in the 80s it only cost them £300 to dip and paint a shell. I guess inflation is a b**ch.

Haha awesome get me the address and i'll drop it off in the morning If only it still cost that

 

[BIGASH]

just been back for a look at the original cage pictures. IMO there's about 15-20kg of extras that could be cut out without compromising safety. That would be a nice improvement

Yes it's a good point but can't modify the cage otherwise it won't be certified and then if checked would have to be started from scratch