Clio 172 phase 1 turbo

[richjwilliams]

all looking good mate, i was thinking when we get ours how good the MGTF Ap conversion might be???

see if i can tempt dewis into a weekend at his making some mounts etc???

would mean keeping the 16's though but if it means better braking then might be worth it

we are itching to get one now... lol

 

[Chip-mk1]

Im a bit too committed to 15" wheels now to consider anything that wont work with them, lol

 

[richjwilliams]

oh yes i remember 30 odd wheels lol

what you reckon though, worth persuing???

 

[Chip-mk1]

The MG 4 pots are decent, depending on your power level though they are unlikely to be needed, Ive never overheated the brakes in les's and she has only done so once and that was cause she was a bit nervous at bedford after a spin so was braking way too much for the bends after.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Copy of my post from the thread about LLandow just to keep this thread upto date:

Absolutely buzzing this evening, just had such an epic day with my turbo at Llandow today.
It was great fun at bedford a couple of weeks ago which I expected but to be honest I took it to llandow today purely cause my mk1 wasn't ready as I was thinking that the power of the turbo would be a bit wasted on such a small circuit in the wet so hadnt originally planned to take it, but it just wasnt wasted at all it was epic

Massive thanks to everyone who helped organise the day, mainly jay and tony but also all the guys at the circuit who marshalled in the rain etc.

Lost count of how many sessions I did in the end, such a good value day, I do remember taking out all these people for a session (or more than one session in some cases)

Mick
Pete
Luke
Graham
Jay
Tony
Lesley
James
Nick
Sharkey


Plus Lesley did a few sessions driving and James did one driving too.


Had to touch it once with a screwdriver to adjust a boost pipe, and had to fill it with fuel but other than that was faultless. Really makes all the hard work me and danlp6 put in over xmas feel worth it.

Original thread here with some comments from people who came out in it:

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?687165-My-turbo-at-Llandow-today-epic-fun




Some pics from the day:

Pics from the legendary Mr Freeman

PROPERLY loving this car since the rebuild, it just seems to do everything I could hope for really, show it a large dry track its epically quick, put it on a tight wet track and its perfectly controlled and drivable despite the power, and on the road its comfy , not too noisey and effortlessly quick.
Just a shame it doesnt do 50mpg or I would use it daily too, lol.

 

[Jakey92]

Pictures look good, how were the brakes?

 

[Scrooge]

This really has turned into an amazing car, hopefully I get to see it one day!

 

[Hixle]

Cheers for the ride out in it Chip, it's a f**king animal mate but not in the way I expected it to be - it's just SO progressive!

Look forward to seeing it again at some point soon

 

[Chip-mk1]

This really has turned into an amazing car, hopefully I get to see it one day!

Yeah I'd love to take you out and show you what it can do sometime mate, needs to be on a track though to really appreciate the way it lays the power down out of bends etc, bit hard to really show on the road due to the speeds you get up to!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Pictures look good, how were the brakes?

They coped ok at llandow as I was quite gentle on them and the speeds were lower than at bedford, but I deffo need to finish making up some better ones for it!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Cheers for the ride out in it Chip, it's a f**king animal mate but not in the way I expected it to be - it's just SO progressive!

Look forward to seeing it again at some point soon

Thanks mate, and I know exactly what you mean, its not good having loads of power if it just lights the tyres up, so everything I have done with this car has been about putting me in control of it properly and its nice to see its worked well enough to be noticeable from the passenger seat even. It seems to be the biggest thing that people have been picking up on, yes its stupidly quick compared to a normal 172, but all turbo clios are, the trick is being able to still get out of a bend quick though which most turbo clios fail on, they are normally only good in 4th down a straight etc!

 

[Scrooge]

Yeah I'd love to take you out and show you what it can do sometime mate, needs to be on a track though to really appreciate the way it lays the power down out of bends etc, bit hard to really show on the road due to the speeds you get up to!

Hoping to come and spectate at the next Llandow meeting so may see you there

 

[Chip-mk1]

Hoping to come and spectate at the next Llandow meeting so may see you there

Nice one mate, will probably bring it to that, so will be a good chance to show you it hopefully it will rain again as that really shows off how controllable it is!

 

[Scrooge]

From what everyone has been saying you've done a fantastic job at the mapping!

Hows the gearbox holding up so far?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Gearbox *seems* ok so far mate, but I am not holding out much hope it will last mega long term.

TBH providing I dont have to lob more than 1 or 2 a year in, I'll be happy.


Its not so much the mapping itself, as the strategy used for boost control (throttle angle versus rpm dictates boost request) that is the key thing to how it differs to most other cars. If you use something like an Omex 600 for example, thats just not possible, its the sort of feature generally on higher end ECU's only, although ironically the particular one on my car is actually quite a budget ECU, but only in price not in spec or features (the joys of it inheriting so much from the megasquirt project!)

 

[Bobby.]

Brilliant car this chip!

What's next for the little weapon?

What tyres were you using at llandow?

Where's the next track day?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Brilliant car this chip!

Thanks mate

What's next for the little weapon?

Well I need better brakes but other than that nothing at all TBH mate, its fine as it is and I want to get back to my other projects.

What tyres were you using at llandow?

RSR

Where's the next track day?

For me now its April Action day at combe.

 

[2Damnsly Andy]

Chip when are you at Bedford again? Let me know as I want to attend another day there.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Chip when are you at Bedford again? Let me know as I want to attend another day there.

Not got any more days there booked yet mate.

Waiting for the renaultsport evenings to be released as normally now we only do 3 days a year there which is the season opener then the 2 renaultsport evenings, but at the moment they arent listing anything, so not sure if that means they arent on this year or just not organised yet.

We both love the track but its a long drive from Taunton so we just stick to those specific events there normally these days normally.

If the RS evenings arent on, we'll just go to a normal MSV day there I guess, but not sure when yet.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Went to the southwest rolling road meet today at Tipton garage.

I nudged the boost up just a tiny bit as I knew people were hoping to see it crack 300.

torque is low because the operator had to back off a touch when it wheelspan and then feed the power back in, tyres just couldn't cope with over 300lbft on the metal rollers. Probably would have done 330-350 lbft I guess if it had traction as it would have been 2 bar then not one at 4-5k

 

[Russ_16v]

Fair play mate!!

Oh, love the red nail polish, definately your colour

 

[The Chubby Pirate]

Great work!

Not sure if i asked before but have you had the car weighed Chip? Also, is 50bhp normal for transmission loss (if i'm reading that right?)

What is normal, 15/20%?

 

[Mr R.]

Fair play mate!!

Oh, love the red nail polish, definately your colour

Yeah chip has nice small hands, just what you need for working on Clios....

 

[Tutuur]

lol!!! this is Chip, always saying he won't crank up the boost which he eventually does anyway
nice result though, gonna keep it like this?

guess the turbo is more maxed out then maxed out!

 

[Tutuur]

just founds this, guess you're not the only one getting the max out of the turbocharger:

26psi tapering to 16,5 at 6500rpm

 

[George182]

That's awesome chip!

That should mean there is plenty of potential in my forged block

 

[Chip-mk1]

Fair play mate!!

Oh, love the red nail polish, definately your colour

Thanks mate, glad you like it.

 

[Chip-mk1]

lol!!! this is Chip, always saying he won't crank up the boost which he eventually does anyway
nice result though, gonna keep it like this?

guess the turbo is more maxed out then maxed out!

In the summer I won't be able to quite make the same power, nice cold day today so good for intake temps. So although I will leave the settings the same it will still dip back down a touch. Although tbh 280/300/308 etc. really makes no difference on trackdays.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Great work!

Not sure if i asked before but have you had the car weighed Chip? Also, is 50bhp normal for transmission loss (if i'm reading that right?)

What is normal, 15/20%?

Dyno dynamics assumes 15 percent for fwd but maha reads it differently as includes an element of loss for the rollers themselves as well as the cars transmission.

never weighed it, slightly more than a standard ph1 I guess.

 

[Chip-mk1]

just founds this, guess you're not the only one getting the max out of the turbocharger:

26psi tapering to 16,5 at 6500rpm

There certainly isn't a huge amount more possible from my particular setup. Not really fussed though tbh mate, as mentioned before all I really care like is what it drives like on track and few more bhp around the peak figure really won't change that much.

 

[Chip-mk1]

That's awesome chip!

That should mean there is plenty of potential in my forged block

Miles more potential there mate, I'm sure I could make 500 out the engine with the right turbo and manifold etc, but I've no interest in doing that to the gearbox and I have no real use for that sort of power.

 

[George182]

Miles more potential there mate, I'm sure I could make 500 out the engine with the right turbo and manifold etc, but I've no interest in doing that to the gearbox and I have no real use for that sort of power.

I imagine 300 is more than plenty tbh.

260 felt more than adequate! Ha ha

 

[BoatNonce]

Sounded epic in the Dyno cell. Even if it did fill the place with tyre smoke and burn the paint off the floor.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I imagine 300 is more than plenty tbh.

260 felt more than adequate! Ha ha

My theory is this:

Trackdays are about enjoying the bends.
If you have insufficient power to be able to get to more than the speed that you can do a bend at, it takes the fun out of it slightly for that bend, so for example if I am driving Lesley's car, the left hander after the first chicane at combe, simply isnt a corner at all, its just part of a straight because I can easily go through it with the throttle nailed and take the wrong line and still make the corner, which is no challenge at all, where as in the turbo I have to actually treat it as a corner not a slight kink in a straight as I have enough power that I cant take it flat, so that to me is more involving.
Once you get to the stage though that you are already in that situation for every bend, the only thing more power does then is allow you to get to a higher speed on the straight and have to brake harder, neither of which is particularly involving.

So I think more power is useful to a point, and then after that just doesnt improve the things I care about anymore, I dont really want to be doing 150mph+ anyway on track in case I have any brake failures or similar, just turns an issue into a fatality, lol, so more power just means I will back off halfway down the straight anyway.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Sounded epic in the Dyno cell. Even if it did fill the place with tyre smoke and burn the paint off the floor.

Yeah it was interesting hearing it from the outside, normally on the dyno im the operator and you dont get to wander around the car and hear it properly, sounded pretty epic
Cool thing is that its still almost as quiet as a standard car on the motorway etc though.

 

[BoatNonce]

I remember thinking 'I swear it was louder than this before...'

Then the turbo kicked in.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Video of my car on the rollers at tipton, courtest of "the fatty" on here:

 

[Tutuur]

lovely to hear Chip guiding the operator: maybe if you let it spin a couple of times the tyres warm up :rasp:

the thing sounds like a monster though!

 

[Chip-mk1]

lovely to hear Chip guiding the operator: maybe if you let it spin a couple of times the tyres warm up :rasp:

the thing sounds like a monster though!

Lol, not heard the video myself yet, but yes that does help with trackday type tyres on metal rollers, a little heat in them helps them work a bit better, was always going to be a losing battle though with not being able to pull the wishbones down in like on the rollers I normally use, that stops spin totally even on full boost in 3rd.


Nuts how buckled the wheel is, still drives fine, but will bin that one I think.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Not sure why but I really like this picture from the day that Shifty took