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Crumbing Ferodo DS1.11 pads



This ain't normal right? 40 laps of Croft coupled to new discs. Its the inners with the issues which i know take more heat but never had them crumble this bad.

Bedded in as per Ferodos recommdation.

Even the Carbone Lorraine pads I've used weren't this bad and they're renowned for it.

The DS2500's that they replaced were in perfect condition on removal and they'd also done a track day with the previous owner.

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  Listerine & Poledo
Of course, the rears aren't under as much stress as the fronts, but did they disintegrate too?

I'm assuming when you say "40 laps" you don't 40 laps in one go ?
 
Of course, the rears aren't under as much stress as the fronts, but did they disintegrate too?

I'm assuming when you say "40 laps" you don't 40 laps in one go ?
Oh thought the rears did more work, silly me! And yep turned up did 40 laps in one stint. ?
 

Kev@KAM

ClioSport Trader
  Badass Toyota
Never seen a set fail like that. Can you email us with some details of how they were used, any pictures of the discs too?
We'll see what our distributor says next week...
 

Krarl

ClioSport Club Member
Looks like they’ve been wet, I’m sure someone had this issue before with 1.11

People tend to swap back to some standard-ish pads when the car is going to be parked up or not driving hard etc so no moisture gets to the pads. Not sure if it could be the issue but I’ve seen 1 or 2 others complaining about it happening
 

SWL16

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182
My mate's crumbled exactly like that after one trackday at Thruxton.
 
Still nothing back from Kam racing's distributor on these, just been told from Kam that they are under staffed and cant tell me when they will be able to get anything back from them. I even said I will go direct to their distributor if it would speed things up but that offer was declined. Got Aintree and Oulton early October which looks like i'm going to either have to use these or fork out for another set of pads.

The question is are these safe to re-use?
 
It's that one with quite a bit broken off i'd be worried about. The others i'd use.

Could you run a cheap fast road pad to get by?
Got a set of DS2500's in there now, but they wont be up to Oulton. Yeah the one that has badly crumbled will only get worse and ruin my discs in the process no doubt.
 

Kev@KAM

ClioSport Trader
  Badass Toyota
Still nothing back from Kam racing's distributor on these, just been told from Kam that they are under staffed and cant tell me when they will be able to get anything back from them. I even said I will go direct to their distributor if it would speed things up but that offer was declined. Got Aintree and Oulton early October which looks like i'm going to either have to use these or fork out for another set of pads.

The question is are these safe to re-use?

I wouldnt use them.
The images you sent me have gone to the factory for them to assess. Hopefully we will get some sort of answer shortly.
 

Kev@KAM

ClioSport Trader
  Badass Toyota
All sorted eventually. New pads going out.

What Ferodo have said:

The material chunking is most probably connected to the pads not having had a sufficient bedding-in cycle but I did notice in the photos the pads have seen fairly high temperatures. This is demonstrated by the paint bubbling and in some areas of the plates it has completely disappeared.

Batch 509 is the new formulation (extra fibre) so these should be easier to bed in for the customer. Before they fit the new set it may be worth checking that the caliper is sliding properly and that everything in the caliper is working as it should (piston rings etc..). I mention this due to the relatively high levels of heat that have passed through the pad back-plates on a circuit that is not really that hard on brakes.
 
Thanks Kev. I bedded them in exactly how Ferodo recommended and made sure that the callipers were free by removing all previous build up on the pins and regreasing. I also made sure the calliper pistons were moving freely by pushing them in and out several times and they were fine.
 

Kev@KAM

ClioSport Trader
  Badass Toyota
It may be a case that with your car and caliper spec they need a little more bedding in than the standard process.
It may be the DS1.11 are more tricky to bed in and thats why they've improved the compound vs the batch you had...
 
It may be a case that with your car and caliper spec they need a little more bedding in than the standard process.
It may be the DS1.11 are more tricky to bed in and thats why they've improved the compound vs the batch you had...
Presume I'll be receiving the B Suffix Pad Range as below?

B Suffix Pad Range

Please note that when fitting the DS1.11 or DSUNO materials with the suffix B in their part numbers ,such as WB or ZB ,these pads have received a very high temperature heat treatment during manufacturing.

  • This results in a much reduced bedding-in process. These pads allow the number of brake applications mentioned above to be reduced to a simple mechanical mating process of possibly five applications
  • The backplates required to undergo this process are also more robust and are lacking the mechanical attachment holes and thus the brake pad is stiffened and less prone to distortion.
  • The resins present in the formulation are completely stabilized and therefore are not prone to further reaction in the early stages of the pad life. This eliminates pad material shrinkage.
 

JamesBryan

ClioSport Club Member
How many stops and at what speed did you bed them in mate?

I find a bit of steady driving with a few short stops to get them warm, followed by 10 stops from 100-30mph. Not slamming on though, just medium but constant pressure. Hard braking for short times generates less heat than required.
 
How many stops and at what speed did you bed them in mate?

I find a bit of steady driving with a few short stops to get them warm, followed by 10 stops from 100-30mph. Not slamming on though, just medium but constant pressure. Hard braking for short times generates less heat than required.

Yep similar to the above but with more cycles and firmer pressure in the later cycles to generate more heat for the DS1.11 compound.
 

MattRS182

ClioSport Club Member
  #3 PH2 172 Flamer
Just bought some of these pads, Completely new to track days, So not that clued up on bedding in so if anyone can share best way? Do I bed them in on the first track day? The car will be used to drive to and from track (obvs can't do them tests on normal road)
 

Superwoman90

ClioSport Club Member
  Peugeot 207
Just bought some of these pads, Completely new to track days, So not that clued up on bedding in so if anyone can share best way? Do I bed them in on the first track day? The car will be used to drive to and from track (obvs can't do them tests on normal road)
I myself have just purchased some of these front pads, having them fitted tomorrow then going to follow the following advice to the letter;

When fitting make sure the pads aren't wedged in too tight, you may have to file some paint off the ends tabs , they want 1 mm of vertical play when cold so they have room to expand when get hot. Can run without the carrier shims or file more then bed them in as per instructions, which pretty much translates to the following;

You want to do a series of repetitive "stops" to get heat in them.
A lot of heat, think twice as hot of your oven so 600 deg C (this is important on the DS1.11 more so due to the make up/compound of them) something like
6 x 40-20 mph
6 x 60- 20 mph
6 x 80-20 mph
6 x 100-20 mph
Straight after each other to get them really hot, so slow down, speed up, repeat.
Do NOT stop or lock the brakes up.

Apply about 50% pedal pressure to start with and then build that up gradually and smoothly until really start leaning on them last few "stops"

They will smell and be really biting by the end of this, then you want to let them cool by hardly using them and driving to get some airflow through the wheels for a while.

They may smoke at the end, don't worry just drive to get some airflow through them.

If you have brake ducting in place or the fogs/arch removed. Blocking/blanking them up while you do this can help get the temps up

If doing it on track, just build heat into them by braking a bit longer than usual, then do a few cool down laps. Let them cool to below 100 deg C before going back out on them. This stabilises the pad compound, once it's done you can use them how ever you like they're done.
 
Most race type pads don't take too kindly to road type driving BTW.

They absorb water and end up cracking to pieces over time. Given the costs its almost worth having a road and a track set of discs and pads.
 

MattRS182

ClioSport Club Member
  #3 PH2 172 Flamer
Just dropping car off to have them fitted, do I need to bed in straight away?
 


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