K20 powered 172

[haimsey]

I’m sure everything will be fine, all the best looking forward to seeing next update

 

[Chambers_RS]

7.45am this morning

 

[green]

Good luck hope all goes well

 

[Jamess182]

Just read through a load of this thread, awesome work. Hope today goes well!

 

[Chambers_RS]

Here we go

Few pics as I unloaded and was waiting for Chris as I was early

 

[Chambers_RS]

Front lambda isn’t working!

 

[haimsey]

Bad times, did you get it sorted in the end?

 

[Chambers_RS]

So. Bad times. Yesterday didn’t go very well at all.

Straight from the start the front lambda was not working at all so Chris couldn’t map off that, no worries he said he’ll map it like a race car but it’ll never pass mot 😂

Chris started mapping and done everything upto 2K and all seemed well.

He then started mapping higher up the Rev range. He did 1 full bore run which caused the fan belt to squeal it’s tits off and it pulled really s**t figures.

So we sorted the fan belt before it come off.
Chris did more runs with more s**t figures.
I could see Chris was thinking there’s problem here as he remember how torquey it was last time he mapped it. We did some digging and found the VVt was working correctly.

With the engine idling we unplugged the VVt solenoid and when we plugged it back in it was activating the VVt at idle!! So Chris dived into the Gen90 and found the VVt output wasnt working and had to physically move the pin in the wiring harness to spare output.

Not impressed considering this is brand new Gen90 ecu direct from Ktec.

So after a few more runs and Chris desperately trying to find an answer mapping or ecu related. After yet more runs Chris and I decided it must be engine related either compression is down or timing is out so unfortunately had to leave mapping uncompleted.
I don’t think the timing will be out as it’s barley been used since done. I’m hoping it’s down on compression just to have an answer of why.

Anyway highest figure it pulled was 172bhp and 153ftlb which is about 20 down on each, I didn’t get the graph printed and can’t find my old one either!
I did share my old graph with @NorthloopCup but don’t suppose he will still have a copy.

So I’ve got a compression tester on order to see whats happening there but I’m really really struggling to think what to do with it next!!!

Disappointed to say the least

 

[Christopher.]

What a pisser

 

[R29TJR]

Sorry to hear this mate.

Fingers crossed you get it resolved quickly and this will all be a distant memory.

 

[Chambers_RS]

Hopefully. Hopefully the compression is down so I have an answer lol

 

[robzracing]

Bad luck mate. It's such an anti climax when things like this happen. Hope you get it sorted soon.

 

[NorthloopCup]

@Chambers_RS I've still got it...... want me to upload it?

 

[Chambers_RS]

Oh yeah please. Legend
I can send it to Scoff then and see if that graph is up across the Rev compared to yesterday’s graph.

If my thinking is right, If it’s down on compression the whole graph should lower through out the Rev range and if it’s cam timing it’ll be up/down in random areas?

 

[haimsey]

Not the good news I was hoping you’d share. At least you’ve got a plan for getting it sorted. Only heard good things about Scoff so sure it’ll be sorted and out on track soon!

 

[R29TJR]

Hopefully. Hopefully the compression is down so I have an answer lol

I was going to say that!

Good luck & stick with it. Will be amazing once up & running.

 

[NorthloopCup]

 

[Chambers_RS]

Thanks Mark I’ll send that to Scoff :up:

 

[Chambers_RS]

@NorthloopCup you reckon mk3 200 pistons would make a difference to my setup?
If it’s down on compression I might throw them in as I have them and new rings.

 

[NorthloopCup]

@NorthloopCup you reckon mk3 200 pistons would make a difference to my setup?
If it’s down on compression I might throw them in as I have them and new rings.

It'll just move the power band up really. That's all that usually comes from upping the cr. May give some small hp and lbft increases as well though.

 

[NorthloopCup]

I can't tell you if they will clatter the valves either as I don't think anyone's done it with grp n cam timing. Only option then is to go to 197/200 cams as well as they definitely don't touch.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

So you can run the 197/200 pistons with the 1*2 head ok? Didn't know that. I thought going the whole hog and fitting 197/200 head was required, though I don't know why 😂

Does the 197/200 use a high CR than the 172?

 

[Chambers_RS]

I can't tell you if they will clatter the valves either as I don't think anyone's done it with grp n cam timing. Only option then is to go to 197/200 cams as well as they definitely don't touch.

Might try some lairy cams too?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Might try some lairy cams too?

No point unless you're f**king the rs2 off and also carrying out the necessary to stop it spinning the centre main. To get n/a hp requires £'s. Lots of 'em.

 

[Chambers_RS]

No point unless you're f**king the rs2 off and also carrying out the necessary to stop it spinning the centre main. To get n/a hp requires £'s. Lots of 'em.

Haha no what you mean. I do like the RS2 tho 😂

Block machined for tagged bearings help that? Like the F7R bearings?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Haha no what you mean. I do like the RS2 tho 😂

Block machined for tagged bearings help that? Like the F7R bearings?

It's part of it mate yeah. Biggest issue you'll come up against is the crank in the 736 is shite for high rpm work. Block needs checking for trueness of journals as well - line bore if necessary. Everything also needs to be balanced as well.

 

[Chambers_RS]

It's part of it mate yeah. Biggest issue you'll come up against is the crank in the 736 is shite for high rpm work. Block needs checking for trueness of journals as well - line bore if necessary. Everything also needs to be balanced as well.

I’ve got a 200 engine so could use the crank rods and pistons all balanced with the lightened flywheel I guess. I’ve got a decent 172 block as well.

Struggling with what to do actually as I don’t wanna go ITB or turbo really.

 

[gez 172]

Simple. Sort the compression and continue. It doesn't need to go further down the money pit route IMO.

Standard base/internals is reliable.

Sorting the compression is peanuts in comparison and then just get it back on the RR for mapping.

 

[Chambers_RS]

Simple. Sort the compression and continue. It doesn't need to go further down the money pit route IMO.

Standard base/internals is reliable.

Sorting the compression is peanuts in comparison and then just get it back on the RR for mapping.

Not if it’s piston rings 😂 still be £££s

I know what you mean tho. Need to test it first but once it’s broke it’s the perfect chance to upgrade :tonguewink:

 

[gez 172]

Not if it’s piston rings 😂 still be £££s

I know what you mean tho. Need to test it first but once it’s broke it’s the perfect chance to upgrade :tonguewink:

Or buy my lump.. fit that and enjoy the car, and build a spare high spec engine up on the side out of yours haha

 

[Aydon182]

i love the torque curves on the RS2 manifolds, i bet that feels so snappy low down the rpm range. sorry to hear the recent bad news though mate, hopefully you'll get it sorted.

shoulda just wacked some 197 cams in with some fruity timing for better gains though amiright @JB21 ? 😂😂

 

[Chambers_RS]

i love the torque curves on the RS2 manifolds, i bet that feels so snappy low down the rpm range. sorry to hear the recent bad news though mate, hopefully you'll get it sorted.

shoulda just wacked some 197 cams in with some fruity timing for better gains though amiright @JB21 ? 😂😂

To drive on track it was awesome instant power from anywhere in the Rev range really.

Can’t remember why I didn’t stick 197 cams in tbh @NorthloopCup may have recommended not using them or I couldn’t find any at the time lol. GrpN timing is really good to drive

 

[NorthloopCup]

To drive on track it was awesome instant power from anywhere in the Rev range really.

Can’t remember why I didn’t stick 197 cams in tbh @NorthloopCup may have recommended not using them or I couldn’t find any at the time lol. GrpN timing is really good to drive

Take it from me, grp n and be happy. I sometimes wish I'd just left mine with the grp n timing and not gone all out like I did with the engine. However, I built my engine to prove a point.

 

[Optimista]

You can also put 197/200 pistons in F7R

 

[william...]

Was off work this weekend so set about changing the water pump. I order the Valeo pump that PMS sell. I checked repair times on autodata and when I saw 4.1 hours to change it wasn't really looking forward to the job.
Spoke to a few Renault specialist in my area they all said to loosen the engine mounts and push it to the passenger side and the pump will just squeeze out.
Anyway all I did was undo the 4 bolts to the alternator bracket and the top alternator bolt, pulled it all forward and the water pump was out in 20 minutes happy days.

View attachment 1265312

Sorry for asking, but how did you get so much space between bodyshell and engin?

View attachment 1265313

Course this would of been harder if I still had PAS lol.
10 minutes to clean the old gasket off and 25 to fit back together and tension the belt it was done. Happy days.

View attachment 1265314

Gave the ML a bit of TLC too as it need rear brakes and the rear antiroll bar drop links where missing strangely.

 

[TimR26]

View attachment 1354772

Shows why this graph wasn’t posted up at the time.

Hope you get the issues sorted.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Shows why this graph wasn’t posted up at the time.

Hope you get the issues sorted.

Peak hp means f**k all if it doesn't drive right. I know how well grp n timing drives.

 

[TimR26]

Peak hp means f**k all if it doesn't drive right. I know how well grp n timing drives.

Maybe but a lot of people waited to see what the RS2 and PMS manifold combo would do so it should have been shared.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Maybe but a lot of people waited to see what the RS2 and PMS manifold combo would do so it should have been shared.

Wasn't my place to share. The reality is that the pms manifold only really works well on highly tuned n/a engines. That's when it comes into its own.

 

[Chambers_RS]

The graph/our come wasn’t shared because mark ask me to keep the grpN timing quiet as at the time he was building his engine and didn’t want endless requests for it doing.

I’m sure I’ve said in the thread as well I only brought the manifold to get rid of the horrid join on the standard one.

It certainly has lost any power with the manifold and Im still not interested in figures regardless over how it drives, and it’s really good fun to hammer on track.