Mk1 F4R/172'd Track Car Project [Year 3 - Engine and Chassis Rebuild]

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

how did you time it up?

it doesn't spin over easily with the plugs out?

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

lol, timing police :lolup: :rasp:

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

not 'easily', the bolt on the crank just tightens, can move it with screwdriver on flywheel, pretty stiff but it moves (with head on and head off)....crank bolt on its own no chance, bolt will snap off again....

i turned it over with the exhaust pulley before i removed the cambelt though, and it seemed to turn over ok ish, if a bit stiff....

timed up with timing tools, i didnt do it myself

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

did you check the bottom end?

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

didnt take it apart as it turned over with the pulley+spanner ok before removing cambelt, and then the head....but now after this.....the engines upside down with the sump off....going to have a look at the rod bearings in the morning

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Few other bits done today also....Gearbox Circlip Welded...

Mainfold Wrapped, along with other bit of downpipe....

New headgasket, timing belt, built back up....as said above still wont turn over, so upside down and sump off...

More tommorow.

 

[jams]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Gutted for you atm jord. Give me a shout if you need anything. I'll come over sometime and see it for myself.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Bad sh*t.

Coming on Sunday? Text me if you fancy it.

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Had the piston rod caps off today, looked at both sides bearings, oiled them and refitted....dont know what im definately looking for, but dosent seem to be any weird marks or scoring....the insides of the bearing were still covered in oil already, as can be seen in the pics...

Going to leave the big end caps on 1+5, and check the bearings under the caps of 2/3/4 tommorow probably, so the crank can stay in place.....but if the piston ones havent got anything wrong with them why would the crank ones was my thinking....

 

[ben_p]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Strange one, just fit a starter motor off a tractor

 

[rexe]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

it needs a cuddle

 

[Christopher]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Did you leave the cam locking tool in when you fired it up? lol

 

[MAXIBOY]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

does the bottom end turn over with out the head attached easily enough...do the cams turn easily enough with no belts on..etc..
does it only get stiff when assembled as one unit...

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Bottom end turns over with the head off (had no crank bolt in due to it snapping, so was using screwdriver on flywheel. It turned over multiple times, but was pretty stiff....

Cams turn fine on their own in situ, just once the belt is on and timed up, its very very very stiff to turn over by the crank pulley...

When i had the rod caps off yesterday and pushed the pistons down slightly to see the other half of the bearing, the pistons moved pretty easily, same as what my F7R did....it just seems when its all together it gets stiff...

Going to take the main caps off (well the middle 3) shortly and check those out...

 

[MAXIBOY]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

yeah sounds like you might have a main fault...can't remember the torque figures for the crank only to turn..will see if i can find some..

plus if the middle three show nothing have the five off..

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Cylinder 1-2-3 (from flywheel end) are all perfect, not a mark on them, re-oiled both sides of the bearings, refitted....didnt check cylinder 4 yesterday as i thought if 3 are ok the other would probably be the same....

Took the cap off rod 4, to find the bearing had moved round slightly, when i removed the other caps the bearing came off with them, this did not as it had spun round...Got them off anyway...

And some wierd lip...

 

[BioHzrd]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Would i be wrong to say.....


"Well theres your problem !"

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

ive no idea, lol

going to take the big end caps off when I go back down there now....will see what they are like

 

[Mark One]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

oh dear mate. Its a bit hard to tell what im looking at as im on my phone. Is that a big end bearing thats spun? Either way its going to be a new crank at least. Good luck with it jord

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

oh f0xy that's exactly what happened to mine, spun bearing. rod looks ok, but you may need a new crank! you'll have to get it machined with bigger bearing to suit if the crank is ok. best start ringing round breakers to get a new secondhand crank.

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Would i be wrong to say.....


"Well theres your problem !"

+1

with just the crank main caps on (no rods) the crank should pretty much spin freely by hand, next to no resistance

 

[Hutchie]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Would i be wrong to say.....


"Well theres your problem !"

^^^

 

[JD]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

no idea what's wrong but good luck sorting it jords

ooh deja vu :S

 

[Christopher]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Ahhh sh*t

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

It was a piston bearing that had spun, i hadnt had any of the crank ones off at that point....


but anyway....took bearing number 2 + 3 off the crank....il let the pictures do the talking...

And number 3, no marks whatsoever?

 

[jams]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

So what you doing then fella? New crank or new bottom end?

 

[ditz]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

yep spun bigend thats what i thought,,,

rod will be nackered (will need bore gauging and poss reclaiming)

(they take a layer off the flat surface of the main cap, then rebore the journal)

crank grinding then oversize bearings,, and thats if you can find them,, which i couldnt

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

yep spun bigend thats what i thought,,,

rod will be nackered (will need bore gauging and poss reclaiming)

(they take a layer off the flat surface of the main cap, then rebore the journal)

crank grinding then oversize bearings,, and thats if you can find them,, which i couldnt

the big ends are the ones going onto the block arent they, the rod bearing was spun, not the big end........

the bearings were still in place on the crank-to-block, just scored, they hadnt spun....

 

[ditz]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

nope, bigends are the *big ends* of the con rods,,, small ends are the piston gudeon pin.

main bearings are the ones that hold the crank to the block

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

ahhh right....well i took the shell/bearing out of the rod and it was the same as the rest, not scored/marked in any way, its just the internal (crank) side of the bearing....

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

big end = the bigger end of the conrod (the top bit of the con-rod which connects to the piston is the small end)

the joints which secure the crank to the crankcase are called the mains

:edit: too slow :dapprove:

 

[Mark One]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

oh not good, not good at all. Still got the phone number of the guy that sold you this?

 

[MAXIBOY]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

can't F4 cranks be reground then..using F7 shells if need be..

 

[Christopher]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Pisser

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

oh not good, not good at all. Still got the phone number of the guy that sold you this?

yeah...got all the details, name, phone numbers, address, etc

the crank is now out, more scoring and i think the problem has been revealed....pics uploading now

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Right....all bearings and oil pump removed...

Crank scoring...

Crank removed...

The crank itself...

The main cap's for the crank...

Now the rods with the shells removed...

Maybe the culprit....thrust bearing falling to bits?

All the crap...

And finally a pic of the finished manifold and downpipe

 

[JonniP]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

all the best with the resolution mate. Dont give up! surely one of you experts can give him a hand

 

[powey]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Atleast you have now found the problem, best of luck with the rest of the progress

 

[Brett]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Gutted Jord. Do you think you will have it ready for the trackday in April?

 

[mini-valver]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

That thrust bearing is shagged! You could get a second hand crank but the rods and shells wont have the right tolerances. Yeah, it'd work but it wont be long before its back out again. Send the crank and rods to a machine shop and get them to face it and fit new shells as you'll need oversized ones. Do it properly, do it once.....