"NEO" 172 Cup Rally project with shiny bits on!

[ScottRallye]

I'm actually getting the map checked on Monday funnily enough. Will soon see buddy

 

[RMDavis]

Lovely car Scott. All those unique parts look fantastic!

 

[NorthloopCup]

Get ready for a tail happy cup if you run parallel at the rear mate.

 

[ScottRallye]

Thanks for the compliment dave

I'm just trying a few things out really as I noticed last time at oulton It was difficult to get it turned in properly, and with half a degree of toe in on the back that would be contributing to that, epic setup in the wet though! Nothing passed me for 3 hours haha

Il try it parallel and see how it behaves, going to take a tyre temp gauge aswell and see if I could do with more camber on the front.

 

[ScottRallye]

Checking the tracking on the individual wheels the old school fool proof way due to me forgetting to calibrate the other gauges hence giving me stupid results... The rear is infact nicely even with half a degree toe in which I've bought shims now to straighten out.

 

[NorthloopCup]

1/2 a degree toe in at the rear isn't causing your turn in problems I'm afraid mate. It's more the suspension that's doing that. What's the spring rates you've got on it? Also how low is it, as the roll centres play a big part in getting them to turn in.

 

[ScottRallye]

Pretty sure the fact that the front had a fair amount of toe in aswell as the back is the main reason for the turn in issue, it's not really that low atall really, even considering raising the rear up a little if it still refuses to turn In better.

Spring rates I'm still unsure on as I can't find out what make the front springs are, they are white and say "racing 180-50" the rears are AST 250-40 which is 230lb rear but the front ones are 285lb but are solid so the number may be kg/mm which is 1001lb cup racer spec -_-

 

[NorthloopCup]

Pretty sure the fact that the front had a fair amount of toe in aswell as the back is the main reason for the turn in issue, it's not really that low atall really, even considering raising the rear up a little if it still refuses to turn In better.

Spring rates I'm still unsure on as I can't find out what make the front springs are, they are white and say "racing 180-50" the rears are AST 250-40 which is 230lb rear but the front ones are 285lb but are solid so the number may be kg/mm which is 1001lb cup racer spec -_-

Yeah toe in wouldn't have been helping. You also need stiffness at the rear for track work, but that goes against everything you need for rallying/road rallying.

 

[Dan@SJM]

You want toe out on the front to get decent turn in. Try 1.5mm per wheel.

 

[ScottRallye]

You want toe out on the front to get decent turn in. Try 1.5mm per wheel.

Unsure on mm but the front is now set to toe out at 5 minutes as a starting point, has got to be a hell of a difference as it was 20-25 minutes toe in previously.

Not sure whether to fit the rear shims to square the back up before the track day or see how it behaves with just the front sorted.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Leave the rear, toe out on the front makes these turn on a sixpence

 

[ScottRallye]

Leave the rear, toe out on the front makes these turn on a sixpence

Il try it as it is then, the rear is currently 25' toe in on both which is nice to know it's straight, with 1.5degree of camber.

In the wet the rear feels awesome! It's just in the dry it lacked turn in as obviously the rear wasn't a tail happy with the added grip from being dry. Il give it a blast love abit of a fiddle!

 

[Ph1 Tom]

Pretty sure the fact that the front had a fair amount of toe in aswell as the back is the main reason for the turn in issue, it's not really that low atall really, even considering raising the rear up a little if it still refuses to turn In better.

Spring rates I'm still unsure on as I can't find out what make the front springs are, they are white and say "racing 180-50" the rears are AST 250-40 which is 230lb rear but the front ones are 285lb but are solid so the number may be kg/mm which is 1001lb cup racer spec -_-

180 is length in mm, 50 is N/mm so your conversion to lb/in is correct.

 

[ScottRallye]

Had a little bit of a fiddle with the car this weekend, fitted the camber shims to the rear so that is now parallel nice and easy job that was which is nice, done a nut and bolt check for the track day and need a new rear caliper/rebuild kit.

Also had a spare 5 minutes so chopped the tip off the exhaust and tig'd on a new one.
Whilst doing that I found out that since adding the cage the shell has stiffened up immensely picking up 3 wheels from jacking up one corner haha

 

[ScottRallye]

Car has been checked over, oil topped up, fitted a proper longacre mirror and abit of a photoshoot all ready for oulton park this Saturday!

Excited!

 

[sonny172cup]

Looking good fella

 

[gambit]

Wow looks tremendous !

 

[Cub.]

Looks lovely! I like :smile:

Enjoy, I love Oulton Park.

 

[craigoscott]

we were on the 19th august track day, black saxo, silver 172, black fiesta st and red abarth 500. this clio made a very nice noise indeed!

 

[ScottRallye]

Awesome! I remember the saxo and clio, in the end garage wasn't you?

That was my first proper full trackday and loved it! Car was superb untill I lost my powersteering

 

[craigoscott]

yes we were indeedy had a really good day, much better when the track dried up! felt bad for the cortina and the 182 that crashed though

 

[MG cup]

Il try it as it is then, the rear is currently 25' toe in on both which is nice to know it's straight, with 1.5degree of camber.

In the wet the rear feels awesome! It's just in the dry it lacked turn in as obviously the rear wasn't a tail happy with the added grip from being dry. Il give it a blast :smile: love abit of a fiddle!

I think you'll probably find that your car feels awesome (safe) in the wet because it is..... It's essentially trying to keep itself straight all the time so when it becomes dry the rear doesn't want to rotate around the front. By doing that the front is doing all the work and will always 'push' on and not give you that turn in you're looking for. I personally love the rear to dance about the front on FWD as it can always be corrected with a foot full of the go pedal.

Still love your mates fabrication and your welding, I come in now and again for a spy of it.

 

[ScottRallye]

I think you'll probably find that your car feels awesome (safe) in the wet because it is..... It's essentially trying to keep itself straight all the time so when it becomes dry the rear doesn't want to rotate around the front. By doing that the front is doing all the work and will always 'push' on and not give you that turn in you're looking for. I personally love the rear to dance about the front on FWD as it can always be corrected with a foot full of the go pedal.

Still love your mates fabrication and your welding, I come in now and again for a spy of it.

Exactly, cracking wet set up, also helps warm the rear tyres up in the cold/damp.

The new set up has completely transformed the handling as confirmed last Saturday at oulton park again, was very cold, icey/slippy in the morning so straight away on the sighting laps I felt a big difference to the turn in.

Conclusion is that yes the back end can and will come out if you want it too but that's fine as it's very controllable.

Tight corners/chicanes the turn in is amazing, being able to square off a corner is great.

Faster corners I can really feel the back taking the weight off the loaded front tyre resulting in massively reduced understeer.

Was on track with various race cars and usual supercars/kit cars and a few race clio's and managed to see to all of them throughout the day so I'm extremely happy with it!

 

[ScottRallye]

yes we were indeedy had a really good day, much better when the track dried up! felt bad for the cortina and the 182 that crashed though

It was a great experience having both wet and dry that cortina was there again last Saturday and seemed to be going well without a fire haha.

 

[MG cup]

Nice one...Progression is always good. What was the actual settings you finished with, did you do the shims?

They're ace little controllable cars, I just wish you could adjust the rear geometry quicker for wet/dry without removing hub nuts all the time.

 

[ScottRallye]

Nice one...Progression is always good. What was the actual settings you finished with, did you do the shims?

They're ace little controllable cars, I just wish you could adjust the rear geometry quicker for wet/dry without removing hub nuts all the time.

The finished settings are 5minutes toe out front and parallel rear so yeah I had to fit the shims.

In the wet I would probably remove the rear shims but that takes up about an hour as you say.

Really love the handling of the clio, it's what changed me from being a 106 fan, just wish I knew enough about the clio's as I do with peugeots with regards to bigger jobs like gearbox and engine removals etc.

 

[ScottRallye]

A few updates from last weekend in a nutshell..

Oulton Park was a great success with the car in a different league to 99% of the other cars there and handling very sweet!

Checked the car over, replaced brake fluid, coolant and oils to be changed over the Christmas holidays.

Also fitted some aerocatches to the front bumper which really does save some time! About 15 seconds to remove and refit it now haha

Onto the next chapter now really and that is to get the remaining things *extinguishers, sump guard etc* to get the car msa logbooked and ready for a few events next year. Would really like some brembos or equivalent next year too if some came up.