newbie with a clio cup race car

[Andrewclio]

You would have to get a matching crown wheel and pinion obviously.

Obviously! but you still need to make sure the bearing can cope with the extra force of having a helical pinion and crown wheel, a standard jc5 has tapered bearings and a nut to give preload. With semi helical there isn't as much thrust load, so no need for as much pre load in the diff bearings.

I'm not a 100% sure on the diff setup in stdsa regarding the bearings, but I know when I fitted the sadev diff to the jc5 I had to update the bearings as the diff was designed for a straight cut gear setup with no nut on the diff to set pre load. my crown wheel being helical there could of been a chance of the diff coming out the side of the gearbox without the uprated bearings!

 

[EVOgone]

I will be taking a Sadev CW & Pinnion to Gripper and compare and see what Dave Mac says.

Better to have a UK based solution etc.

 

[EVOgone]

Ian,

What did you modifiy to your fuel filler ? did you just cut out the plastic box and put an connector pipe instead ?

 

[mikekean]

Don't lower models have a different filler without the tank?

 

[EVOgone]

Don't lower models have a different filler without the tank?

Why does the 172 have it what is it? The workshop have removed mine (for the Reigers as they foul) and it wont fill up with fuel at teh fuel pump, not sure if they have messed with the other breathers. Has anyone got a pic or diagram showing the breathers on the tank so i can check they are all there ?

Interested in how Ian has done it on his.

 

[mikekean]

It's for additional fuel I think, a way of increasing the fuel capacity.

 

[EVOgone]

It's for additional fuel I think, a way of increasing the fuel capacity.

Thought it was a breather so shouldnt have any fuel in it?

 

[ian-speedy]

its a breather and expansion tank in case fuel does work its way up the breather to the filler , i'll sort you a photo how I did mine , I still have the breather pipe and have no issues filling it up , I just cut out the expansion tank and run a pipe up

 

[ian-speedy]

here you go

 

[EVOgone]

Mega ! thank you....!

Ian / Anyone got pics of where the other breathers are routed, think they have re routed mine and may be adding to the problem.

 

[ian-speedy]

the small pipe in my pictures come from the top of the tank , i'm sure its the only one mine has

 

[EVOgone]

the small pipe in my pictures come from the top of the tank , i'm sure its the only one mine has

Mine seems to have that small pipe you have vented to atmosphere plus anther thats plugged?

 

[MG cup]

Mine seems to have that small pipe you have vented to atmosphere plus anther thats plugged?

On the road cars it heads off to the carbon canister underneath the car. For the fuelling problem I would also pop off your filler neck at the tank and check the non return ball is moving.

 

[EVOgone]

On the road cars it heads off to the carbon canister underneath the car. For the fuelling problem I would also pop off your filler neck at the tank and check the non return ball is moving.

Is the non return ball in the tank pipe or filler neck?
​

 

[Kenny.s]

It's inside the tank, you can reach the back of it through the fuel pump hole.

Do you have the 15mm (ish) pipe vented to atmosphere?

 

[ian-speedy]

Just a quick one to say my car is back together and working fine , I'm rallying tomorrow up on Epynt again , did the recce and scrutineering today , up at 5:30am to head back up to do the rally , looks like my prayers have been answered and got rain , it will give me more of a chance with the real high powered cars
​anyone going to watch ?

 

[ian-speedy]

Not a good day today , 3rd stage the engine decided to throw a rod out of the block and destroy itself , I'm hoping it hasn't damaged the head , or if it has it can be fixed , was running 1st in class and 10th overall at the time

 

[BIGASH]

Damn that's a shame to hear! Made all the worse if you were on for a good result. Ohh the joys of pushing for high performance


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[Chip-mk1]

Not a good day today , 3rd stage the engine decided to throw a rod out of the block and destroy itself , I'm hoping it hasn't damaged the head , or if it has it can be fixed , was running 1st in class and 10th overall at the time

Sorry to hear that.

Wonder if its done the normal trick of spinning the centre main?

 

[ian-speedy]

Probably , just watched the incar footage and you can see the oil pressure dropping slightly until it went bang , I'd say its definitely crank related , I could feel it go off song , then went tight as it went bang !

 

[JackJack]

:dapprove: ffs such bad luck

 

[Tony Hunter]

Sorry to hear that Ian.

 

[sonny172cup]

Bloody hell not another one... few of the guys had problems on the MVS track day trophy yesterday..

Hope you get it sorted fella

 

[j_clio172]

You and Ceri were going extremely well today! Gutted to hear it went bang Everyone seemed to be pushing hard and to be 10th overall against wrc cars and the quality of escorts.... Outstanding! I was over with John Morgan Fairfield for a bit, his fun came to an end after stg 1 and 2 from being stuck in 4th gear :/

 

[mikekean]

Such bad luck Ian, swear these cup racers are bloody cursed for rallying.

 

[Kenny.s]

Sh#t! Sorry to hear this.

I've not really read much into the bearing failures on these engines but Ive been around subarus for years so safe to say I've seen and known plenty bearing issues!

Even though the bearings on these are tagless that doesn't make them any more susceptible to spinning, if the clearances and oil supply are all ok.

I assume by your comment chip, that the centre bearing is the one most likely to spin if its going to happen?



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[SharkyUK]

Ah ffs mate - sorry to hear the bad news; especially given the position you were running in. I hope the damage is not too severe and you are soon back up and running.

 

[NorthloopCup]

the centre bearing is the one most likely to spin if its going to happen?

Yes it is kenny. Seen LOADS do it now.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Sh#t! Sorry to hear this.

I've not really read much into the bearing failures on these engines but Ive been around subarus for years so safe to say I've seen and known plenty bearing issues!

Even though the bearings on these are tagless that doesn't make them any more susceptible to spinning, if the clearances and oil supply are all ok.

I assume by your comment chip, that the centre bearing is the one most likely to spin if its going to happen?

Dont know if it is that yet, was only a question based on the fact that these engines do particuarly like to spin the centre main bearing the first sign of oil starvation of excess revs etc.

Tagging should help a bit, but if the crank really catches the bearing then a tag isnt going to stop, it only gives it slightly more intertia.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Probably , just watched the incar footage and you can see the oil pressure dropping slightly until it went bang , I'd say its definitely crank related , I could feel it go off song , then went tight as it went bang !

Hard to know if its the spun centre main taking out the oil pump, or a failed oil pump causing a lack in pressure and taking out the centre main sadly.

Even once you have them in bits afterwards it can be very hard to really know which came first out of the two failures assuming it is that.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ah ffs mate - sorry to hear the bad news; especially given the position you were running in. I hope the damage is not too severe and you are soon back up and running.

Rod out the block means:
New rods
New block
New pistons
New crank
New oil pump
New bearings


If he is VERY lucky me might get to use the head and cams again, but even that is unlikely as most of the times the bottom end goes on an engine when in hard use the swarf goes and takes out the top end too (and thats if a piston doesnt do the job first)

So its quite possible about the only thing on that engine that will ever get used again is the sump!

Its amazing how quickly an F4R in particular can go from a competition engine to a useless paperweight.

 

[Porkie]

Its amazing how quickly an F4R in particular can go from a competition engine to a useless paperweight.

Tell me about it! foooooooooooooking things!

Sorry to hear about engine Ian. lost 3 myself the same way.... once my own fault with an over rev

Well done on the high postion you were running before the incident

 

[Fred@BTM]

s**t b****cks f**k! We shall have to investigate the cause on that one

 

[EVOgone]

Bugger not good news at all.....Glad i have decided to put the F7R engine in mine now (ran 3 season no issues) as the F7s seem to have lots of issues. Will keep the F7R one in the reccie car.

Ian need to pick your brains on some other stuff will PM. Hopefully when mine is running we can share progress and development.

 

[ian-speedy]

just found this melted to the bumper so not holding out much hope for the head !



just need to find the pin and piston now lol

 

[TTrev]

just found this melted to the bumper so not holding out much hope for the head !



just need to find the pin and piston now lol

oh! sh*t!
​

 

[Chip-mk1]

Well that is exactly as expected TBH, seen WAY too much heat and failed, I still think its going to be a case of the centre main spun first, dropped the oil pressure, at which point if you noticed the gauge at the time and had any mechanical sympathy you would back off (but as well all know anyone in competition use never does!) and get away with a basic rebuild but instead by keeping your foot in its just got worse and worse until it finally rodded the block (as im sure would porkies have done if he had just kept going at bedford when he miss shifted and spun the centre main but as it was just a trackday he pulled straight in so hard less carnage)

Even if you get lucky and the piston hasnt hit the head, I'd be surprised if the oil starvation and/or swarf from the bottom end failure has completely totalled the head and cams.


gutted mate

 

[ian-speedy]

we had 2.5 bar of oil pressure up till the moment it went boom looking at the video , 200 yards before that we had 3.5 , thats the only problem with the helmets we use , as they have the built in intercoms , it suppresses the outside noise so well you can't here when things are going wrong so you can turn off , if i'd heard it knocking I would have turned it off

 

[Chip-mk1]

When James's failed at Spa neither of us heard a thing, all seemed normal then BANG, we had no indication it was an engine problem at first and I actually thought it might have been the box till we pulled over and looked.

 

[Ryan218]

Chip what generally causes the centre mains to spin? Crank flex?