PH2 Restore > Road Going Go-Kart

[Jamesstone]

Love the detail you've put into this car, even things like chaning the battery to save a bit of weight I think is spot on.

It's exactly why i was a CS just so I can get stupidly geeky with all the weight saving and finer details.

ONe question though, what you've done with the rear to tidy it up... I take it with it just being carpet there's no strength to it?

Thanks mate, I dare add up all the hours work that has gone into it and not to mention all the head scratching etc lol

The great thing about the carpet is it does look really tidy & weigh's less than 300 grams, Puks of Audio carpet , Strenth is not really an issue as the capet will just flow to the boot floor when any weight is put on top, the only issue you could have is the strenth, the audio material is not going to be as hard wearing as standard ie taking a trip to the builders centre and loading the back of the car with bags of sand lol

 

[Jamesstone]

*** UP-DATE ***

New toy arrived in the post for the money pit this morning now ever since installing buckets i knew i needed a better steering wheel, I was set on the Cup racer one but after seeing an omp one on Adamio's project thread i decided the OMP was the way forward so walla!

Very happy with it & i think thats a rap for the interior, next on the list -fiberglass pannels


James

 

[Tom@JMS]

sh!t

i want one..

 

[Guppy]

I need those seats!

Are you goin to FCS? Would like to have a trial seating session

 

[nick.]

Great addition to your car m8, looks very nice

 

[Jamesstone]

I need those seats!

Are you goin to FCS? Would like to have a trial seating session

Unlikely, Got the track day 2 days before so i think the car could be in need of some serious love that weekend let alone it being shown off at the mighty FCS lol

If your heading up to FCS swing by the JMS workshop on your way home & check out the cars, Will more than likely be all 3 JMS cars at the workshop being checked over/repaired from the track session

Great addition to your car m8, looks very nice

Thanks mate, almost there

 

[Fletcher]

The steering wheel looks good mate.

 

[Impey]

Lovly what size mate

 

[Jamesstone]

Its a 330mm, In my eyes, Perfect size! went out last night for the first "test" drive with it so to speak & it really does completely change the feel of the car, torque steer feels alot more present along with the feedback which all adds to the raw feel which is just what a hothatch needs




James

 

[MoRpH3uS]

Nice wheel !

By the way we say "voilà" in French and not walla :rasp:

 

[Jamesstone]

*** UP-DATE ***

Been a busy week indeed & the track day is now closing in very quickly so the list needed to get finished off sharpish!

First task, sort the happy rear end, the fix? fix the bias valve in what it thinks is "standard" rear height

Next big job, Brake cooling.. So work began after my large ducting arrived

Super glue + Duct tape FTW, Strenth is not a major issue as by the time the fog surround is pushed back in place it "crimps" the ducting to the surround

In she goes without cutting any of the fog light support

Next challenge was the carbon canister, so just made a new bracket to move it over

The only permant damage was cutting a hole in the arch but it could easily be covered back up with the plastic and glue and no one would ever know when the wheels on

So bolted in back in and passed the duct through

Back to my trusty electrical trunking lid

Managed to put together a tidy little wind deflector, I do plan to tidy this up in the future but this will work perfect for trial testing before the track day

All bolted in, Ended up bolting onto the wishbone brace

So with that side complete i checked clearance and all was fine, so it was now onto the next side!

First problem was the horn, so a new bracket was formed to move all the unit up & out the way

So happy with that i bolted it all back in the car and did a quick check to make sure all the horn was still working.... well it did... but it sounded like brum the little yellow kids car lol, i dont think we have all laughed so much in the workshop! So it seems the horns are placed in a certain way to enable the sound, no major problems to sort just involved trial an error to till it sounded normal again, so with that done i bolted it all in

Loads of room now!

Put together another bracket

voilà, Job done!

Being the Carbon freak i am, my lovely girlfriend bought me a present for the track day

Yes people it is real carbon fibre


James

 

[Spongebob 172]

Top work mate...very impressed with the ducts.

 

[Jay Payne]

Good work on the brake ducts bud, liking the deflectors. May have to get some of those if JMS were able to supply?

That sensor thing youve adjusted? is that for the esp? does it work the xenon leveling too? Have you noticed a difference since?

 

[Jamesstone]

Good work on the brake ducts bud, liking the deflectors. May have to get some of those if JMS were able to supply?

Fairly simple to put together, You should be able to get the trunking lid from most electrical wholesalers, I'm goona have a play with making a smarter design but really they do the job spot on, just me being fussy

That sensor thing youve adjusted? is that for the esp? does it work the xenon leveling too? Have you noticed a difference since?

Well i havent done to much testing but funny enough it does seem to have solved the problem so far, I only ever got a twitchy rear end when doing 100+ & breaking hard, Tom will tell you how bad it can get lol, Will report back at the end of the week to see if it really has made a noticable diffrence, Its a fairly simple fix if thats the case


James

 

[Ollie82.]

Brake ducting looks trick mate. I need to jump on that bandwagon for Snett, so i may well just rig up something similar.....function over style tho.
Im not as much of a tart as you.

 

[MoRpH3uS]

great job as always

 

[Guppy]

Lovely work as always James

 

[jack_davey]

Well i havent done to much testing but funny enough it does seem to have solved the problem so far, I only ever got a twitchy rear end when doing 100+ & breaking hard, Tom will tell you how bad it can get lol, Will report back at the end of the week to see if it really has made a noticable diffrence, Its a fairly simple fix if thats the case


James

I'm pretty sure its just for the auto levelling on the xenons mate, because I would have thought otherwise the cup models would have it too to control the brake biasing? I've got some info on the braking system lying around somewhere, I'll see if that sensor has any input.

You'll probably find the twitchy-ness at >100 with hard breaking is best explained by the car pratically endo-ing due to high momentum and the massive stopping force at the front end, attributed no doubt by the hard coilover suspension (if youre still running it?)
Thats an educated guess though based upon what you have said, can you feel the rear wheels locking up or does it just feel twitchy?

 

[Fletcher]

Brake ducts look great!

i'm after removing mine soon, as one is cracked and i never use my fog lights.

 

[Tom@JMS]

I'm pretty sure its just for the auto levelling on the xenons mate, because I would have thought otherwise the cup models would have it too to control the brake biasing? I've got some info on the braking system lying around somewhere, I'll see if that sensor has any input.

Would be interested to see your info. The cups have fixed brake bias of around 90/10% to the front/rear so have no brake bias valve.

Brake ducts look great!

i'm after removing mine soon, as one is cracked and i never use my fog lights.

James appears to have a que forming of people that want it doing, needless to say I'm first on the list

 

[olly_mango]

looks great, I really like how you've stripped the rear but kept it looking clean with that acoustic carpet.

Be interesting to see if that is bias valve or xenon adjuster.
Where about is it? as i fancy adjusting it to see if it makes any difference.

 

[jack_davey]

Would be interested to see your info. The cups have fixed brake bias of around 90/10% to the front/rear so have no brake bias valve.

Where did you find that out?

I was under the impression that the 172 cup had no ABS, however the 182 cup used exactly the same braking system as the regular 172/182s?

Oh and heres the info I have...

I think the non sport models have a brake compensator, but I'm pretty certain that thing you can see there is just a height sensor for the auto levelling module for the xenons, if it was a brake compensator it would have brake lines going in and out of it.

 

[Tom@JMS]

Thanks for the info chap, presents an interesting read. According to that the electronic sensor on the rear arm dictates the xenon leveling as you suggested. The brake bias is clearly controlled by EBD but I do not know if the rear arm acts as an input for this system?

As you suggest the sensor is electronic (so doesn't have mechanical contacts such as brake lines going into it) but it could very easily provide info in a similar fashion to the the front and rear ABS rings (electronic sensing) feeding info to the EBD software: except in relation to the weight in the rear of the car, I'll have to look into it

Would be interested to see your info. The cups have fixed brake bias of around 90/10% to the front/rear so have no brake bias valve.

The 172 cups do have fixed brake bias, this makes sense when coupled with the lack of ABS ring input that the system might otherwise use.

 

[Jamesstone]

Thanks for all the coments on the brake ducting, very happy with it

Good news is the MK2 brake duct wind deflector has been finished, looks much smarter Tart for life i know lol


Nice find on the rear sensor Jack, Still un-decided, If you look under a cup, exactly where the "sensor" is on the 172/182 there are lines from memory that go there, I'll have a check this weekend and see if i can get some pics of the Cup set-up

James

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

Hey, Great project James. Hopefully I'll be meeting both yourself and Tom soon in London for a photoshoot

 

[Jamesstone]

Hey, Great project James. Hopefully I'll be meeting both yourself and Tom soon in London for a photoshoot

Thanks mate its come along way, Tom was telling me about your self dropping into London soon for us to have a photoshoot session, Have seen your work, Looks great



James

 

[Vish]

Awesome brake cooling mate! I think I'll have to join the queue for these too!

 

[Jay Payne]

Just to clarify 172 cups have a mechanical load aportioning valve above the rear axle. It isnt connected to the axle tho so the rear brakes do very little (Basicly set in the minimum setting) This is why they 'should' fail the mot on efficency (special exemption for them)

 

[172Ben]

Me want in on the brake ducts! Looks awesome.

What size is the CAF, 114mm?

Good work mate!

 

[Tom@JMS]

Just to clarify 172 cups have a mechanical load aportioning valve above the rear axle. It isnt connected to the axle tho so the rear brakes do very little (Basicly set in the minimum setting) This is why they 'should' fail the mot on efficency (special exemption for them)

Cheers burp, Am I right in thinking its about 90/10 fixed distribution?

 

[Jay Payne]

Not sure what it is but it works. My aftermarket bias valve is well................. shite

 

[Tom@JMS]

lol, the adjustable one right? Whats up with it then, too much on the rears even when fully turned? I thought the brake line work you carried out looked excellent!

 

[Jay Payne]

yep, to much on the rear, bloody dangerous. Not got time to sort it atm. Its fine on the road just lethal on track.

Wish mine was a simple adjustment. So does that sensor do the brakes as well then? or just the xenons?

 

[Tom@JMS]

tbc mate, I'll have a dig through the books tmrw if I get a moment, it certainly does the lights, not 100% on the EBD input though.

You should head over our way at some point chap, maybe when Dan comes over for the photos? Would be nice to have a poke around your track-sl@g

 

[RichCup]

Cheers burp, Am I right in thinking its about 90/10 fixed distribution?

More like 95/5 fella.

Good work on the ducts, and yeh 114mm is the size you need.

 

[adamlewis01]

Just read this all the way through, looks quality mate. You have money to burn :dapprove: your car....WANT!

 

[jack_davey]

I've just found the 172 cup has a brake compensator, as it doesnt have the EBD system built into the ABS (obviously because it doesnt have ABS).
I'm pretty sure the rear height sensor is just an input for the auto levelling, otherwise the 182 cup would have it too.

 

[Jamesstone]

*** UP-DATE ***

Clio had its first track day yesterday, So after leaving the travel lodge at 6AM we headed to the track..

As you can see, not the best conditions

We were lucky enough to get a garage, So had a quick going over the car to make sure every thing was in shape, had the drivers briefing.. And then the games began

Around lunch time the track had dried out, the car was performing spot on, all the months of work that had been put in had paid off, engine/brakes/handling, every thing was doing great.. Then i got carried away, the car at one stage of the afternoon had covered over 20 laps with only the odd cool down lap, brakes we're feeling great so i had no doubt in the car until Tom jumped in passenger to give me some driver in-put, around 2 laps in with Tom we approached the back straight at the end of 4th gear, so roughly around 120/125MPH, Down on the brakes and i had around half a second of force then the brake pedal dropped to the floor sending us into the run off at over a 100mph, Lucky for me it was clear and being smooth tarmac no damage occured to the car, also very luck no one was in front of us, with the car stopped in the run off with smoke coming from the right hand side wheel i knew something was very wrong indeed, So we limped back to the pits with the brakes feeling worse than ever..

first inspection of the brakes

It was clear some thing had gone very wrong, so wheel off to reveal the state of my brembo Grooved discs

And the reason this happend?

No meat left on the pad, only thing i can see has happend is they have built up so much heat and taken the brake pad material clean off, hence why for the first part of the braking i had perfectly normal braking power then a second later my foot hits the deck ( missing brake material causes caliper piston to move out resulting in no presure in system ) the pads had been checked in the morning all round, as you can see from the other pad there is still a good 4mm of material left, on the passenger side the pads still had 4mm + of material left

Over all the car did run great & i had an ace day, Set of new front pads & Brembo max gooved will need to be ordered as the current discs are ruined but other than that she did good, Look forward to getting on another track day but this time round a set of 2118's wrapped in R888 will be in order!


James

 

[couzens]

still not coming to FCS? shame about those brakes!

 

[Jamesstone]

I've just found the 172 cup has a brake compensator, as it doesnt have the EBD system built into the ABS (obviously because it doesnt have ABS).
I'm pretty sure the rear height sensor is just an input for the auto levelling, otherwise the 182 cup would have it too.

Still un-known, Havent had any probs with the rear steping out since adjusting it, once i've got new brake discs/pads on and got them all run in i'll connect the arm back up ans see how it performs

Just read this all the way through, looks quality mate. You have money to burn :dapprove: your car....WANT!

Hope you enjoyed the read, has had a few quid spent on it lol, more than likely to have alot more put into it still too

still not coming to FCS? shame about those brakes

Car is in need of TLC, look at my brakes lol


James