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RS2 makes 150lbft for almost entire rev range and 190bhp on standard engine :)
SG 200 Cup+F4R'd MK1
Good read. Thanks Chip.
SG 200 Cup+F4R'd MK1
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mk2 Leon Cupra
WOWZER amazing figures! must pull like a train with 165ft/lb.
Without RS2165 ftlb and 181bhp hehehe
Yours is probably the best 'standard' car f4r that ive ever seen.
It's not just the peak figures it's the spread too.
In your case I'd just leave it the hell alone now. Lol
clio 182
Just to add another graph to the equation......
Clio 182 on standard inlet, exhaust and decat, ph1 air box.
Pas and air con removed. Not bad I thought!
To be honest though, anyone who knows anything about clios knows that it's pot luck with figures on these engines. It shouldn't really matter, it should be how it drives, but with a product like the rs2 it needs the figures to sell! The broad range of torque you guys have got is good, and I definitely think it has it's place in the market!
As said earlier in the thread it does seem a dead end mod, but people spending big money for big power should know this! Research is key and if I wanted a nice drive able daily rather than a track weapon I would definitely consider the rs2.
Clio 182 on standard inlet, exhaust and decat, ph1 air box.
Pas and air con removed. Not bad I thought!
To be honest though, anyone who knows anything about clios knows that it's pot luck with figures on these engines. It shouldn't really matter, it should be how it drives, but with a product like the rs2 it needs the figures to sell! The broad range of torque you guys have got is good, and I definitely think it has it's place in the market!
As said earlier in the thread it does seem a dead end mod, but people spending big money for big power should know this! Research is key and if I wanted a nice drive able daily rather than a track weapon I would definitely consider the rs2.
Totally agree on the very variable nature of the engines to begin with, makes it so much harder to quantify what has worked or not.
Stone Automotive have really got their work cut out selling them IMHO as the problem is they cant make any firm promises due to the amount the engines vary by, if my own car makes 180bhp then its gained 11bhp over a set of matched inlets which I think is a pretty reasonable power gain, but if millerins made 180 he'd have actually lost a tiny bit of power, lol.
Stone Automotive have really got their work cut out selling them IMHO as the problem is they cant make any firm promises due to the amount the engines vary by, if my own car makes 180bhp then its gained 11bhp over a set of matched inlets which I think is a pretty reasonable power gain, but if millerins made 180 he'd have actually lost a tiny bit of power, lol.
172 Cup 181bp 165lbf
Not planning on anything else really, if I do anymore to it, then we are looking into big money really. And standard, how dare you!
Not planning on anything else really, if I do anymore to it, then we are looking into big money really. And standard, how dare you!
Well standard core engine and cams and standard inlet, you know what i mean, lol
172 Cup 181bp 165lbf
172 Cup 181bp 165lbf
roger
172 Cup 181bp 165lbf
I'm tempted with matched inlets, sor the sake of a few £100. what power gains are we talking
Depends if they are some dodgy dremmelled up crap from a mechanic who's got f**k all experience of such things or if you talking MWM spec ones straight from the godlike hands of Neil Roper for example, but either way you are only talking "a couple" or "a few" its not going to set the world alight its only a small change really.
not really worth it then...now lets talk throttles
Will cost you more than your car did, but work very well.
Martin_172
ClioSport Club Member
while were at it heres my old one.
AWT matched inlets
ITG pannel filter
Samco inlet hose
182 exhaust manifold
k-tec 2.5" Decat/link pipe
k-tec 2.5" stealth exhaust system
and the same car same rollers, standard apart from an ITG panel filter and 10k miles less
AWT matched inlets
ITG pannel filter
Samco inlet hose
182 exhaust manifold
k-tec 2.5" Decat/link pipe
k-tec 2.5" stealth exhaust system
and the same car same rollers, standard apart from an ITG panel filter and 10k miles less
Evo 5 RS
TRUMPETZ
Pointless, should have just used ally and chopped about £100 of the price, would have made the RS2 ever so slightly more justifyable for purchase
Could use a fibreglass plenum too not carbon, or something secondhand off another car, and do away with the coilpack mount and just use a bent up bit of ally, it could probably take a good few hundred off the price if you did all that, but I think most people probably like the fact its such a nicely finished kit, and probably James enjoys selling the best solution he could come up with not the cheapest.
I made a very similar intake for my williams engine for far less money, using a secondhand pulsar plenum and a secondhand ITB manifold and ally trumpets, still would cost you quite a bit to replicate if you didnt happen to have those bits lieing around and someone to do free ally welding for you etc.
Here's mine:
Have had it all powder coated not to stop it looking quite so tatty, but again that just keeps edging the price upwards.
I'd actually quite like to swap the plenum for an RS2 one if James would sell me one seperately as its a better shape for getting more volume, but I need to measure up and see if its going to fit or not before I even ask him.
It was on throttle bodies before it, but relatively short ones (webbers), so the total runner length on each cylinder wasnt greatly changed when I went to this setup, so as you would expect, it made almost no difference at all, when I remapped it after fitting this plenum the fuelling was pretty much identical at full throttle, it was only the mid throttle stuff I had to change a lot (totally different dynamics at part throttle on one single much bigger throttle, means a lot more airflow for a small percentage opening, although cup_phil would probably tell me thats wrong, lol).
I didnt do so on the rollers though, was just road mapped so I cant give you any actual figures I'm afraid, but my laptimes stayed the same, lol
Its got slightly hotter cams now though, and I think the plenum volume is going to now be too small at high rpm now as a result, hence I would like to swap to a bigger one (I can space this one out, if you look I already have one spacer in the pics, and can add another one before it runs out of space, but thats still going to be down compared to the rs2 volume)
Ive not finished running the engine in yet though since a recent rebuild (just a quick freshen up with new rings and bearings etc, nothing performance orientated other than the cams)
Sadly I have a lot more cars than I have time at the moment, so they all tend to suffer a bit as a result.
Got trackday season starting in a few weeks though so need to get my arse in gear and finish a couple! Although got a calibra turbo powered corsa to finish helping a mate with first and also got a forged 172 build and mapping to do before then as well for another mate, time is a precious commodity that I seem to have little of outside of work sadly!
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No I didnt miss your point at all, I said that you were exagerating the effect of it though, would be more like 30-40 quid saved IMHO not 100.
The carbon ones are lighter (to an irrelevant extent) and you can see them (but only when you peer down the throttle orifice) but most of all they are just awesome looking in the unassembled pics and James (and some of his customers) likes them partly for that reason I suspect, thats what I meant about best solution, didnt mean mechanically better, just in some way more desirable.
But I suspect customers like knowing they have carbon trumpets TBH and I doubt that knocking 30-40 quid off the manifold price would make it as much more attractive as you seem to think, like I said the only way to do that is to knock a few hundred off, and to do that would mean lots of compromises that do matter more not just one change to the trumpets.
Also as James is now tooled up for the carbon ones, to specify ally ones instead would involve more investment (as they are custom size and shape so you couldnt just by random ones off the net) so it would be quite a few kits sold before it got ANY cheaper.
mk2 Leon Cupra
I was joking.
HURRY UP!!!! pls
LOL
Trying to hurry parts out of people for renaults is a whole new world of pain.
Got rods and pistons now, apologies for lack of photos of them as I know you like shiney things but Jack from MWM collected them and they have gone straight to Steve's machinist for boring the block to suit, valves are halfway across the pacific apparently (inlets are one piece, the exhausts are two piece but joined much higher up the stem than standard valves so should be a good upgrade), squirters have arrived.
Me and Mike should be building the engine up on Sat the 28th if all goes according to the current (ever changing due to useless suppliers, lol) plan.
Why couldnt you just have a vauxhall or a ford, they are so much easier to get decent uprated parts for, lol!
When i had my Pulsars i used a company called GTIR US in southend for bits, he brakes them/fixes them e.t.c he has about 100 of those plenums on the shelf.
This is -J- on here at Surrey Rolling road on Saturday, not yet mapped properly but would imagine that by sheer chance the generic map he is using happens to be very close to correct:
Think he had it rollered there as a standard car as well, so maybe if he or James asks charlie nicely they can come up with a comparison graph.
Looks like at 6200 the cam advance gets turned off as that would explain the way the torque drops of course, so it would probably have held onto that lovely flat 150lbft for even longer if it was for that.
Think he had it rollered there as a standard car as well, so maybe if he or James asks charlie nicely they can come up with a comparison graph.
Looks like at 6200 the cam advance gets turned off as that would explain the way the torque drops of course, so it would probably have held onto that lovely flat 150lbft for even longer if it was for that.
James was gonna have a word with Charlie To see if he still had the standard graph, which IIRC was about 164bhp, don't recall the torque figure. Hopefully he managed to get the graphs over laid.
Map wise it's the RS Tuner 98ron map.
And your right, the Cam Advance switched off at top end so with mapping this should be sorted
172 cup RS2 - 330ci
This is -J- on here at Surrey Rolling road on Saturday, not yet mapped properly but would imagine that by sheer chance the generic map he is using happens to be very close to correct:
Think he had it rollered there as a standard car as well, so maybe if he or James asks charlie nicely they can come up with a comparison graph.
Looks like at 6200 the cam advance gets turned off as that would explain the way the torque drops of course, so it would probably have held onto that lovely flat 150lbft for even longer if it was for that.
A strong example!! 10 bhp more than mine! lol
