Trophy Track Car

[richjwilliams]

Brilliant thanks lads

sorry if this is a stupid question, but do you attempt to get the seats level with a spirit level, i can see one in your pics or do you follow the line of the car?

if possible i wanted to avoid the spacing the seats too much to level etc

thanks again

 

[MG cup]

Mine were an absolute mare due to the size of my seats although Its pretty simple in theory tbh, its just trial and errror for best placement, something somebody cant tell you. It's two seat rails that span from the exhaust tunnel to the sills, how you have them angled, spaced, height etc etc is up to 'you' and what works for 'you'. Mine and Kelv's are a proper kit from Motorsport tools on eBay, you can use box section, tubing, whatever it me be, just make it strong enough for a bash or look up the blue book if its for racing ( hence why I bought a specific kit)

Nope I won't be at Coombe although I will be at Knockhill on the 21st

 

[Tony Hunter]

It took three of us nearly all day to get the race car seat in the right place.

 

[Russ_16v]

Looks brilliant mate, very neat!

 

[Grant89]

Love how this thing is coming along! Getting better and better!

Quick question, what paint have you used to paint the floor as I need to do it on mine soon and don't really fancy spraying/masking off and so on- I know you can get some paint on stuff but wondered what you've used for yours? Looks like brush on but how are you doing the sides/ boot etc too?

 

[Fantom]

Really need to copy the way your seats have been done. I'm 6 foot 5 so lowering the seat will make a huge diff for me
Also interested in the paint you used

 

[Fantom]

Can someone post up a link to the weld in seat bars? I've searched on their site but can't find them.
Also is there any reason why I won't be able to bolt my seat runners to them and then the side mounts? I can't see why this would be a problem

 

[Kelv]

Fantom, you will have no problem atall if that's what you wish to do with your seat runners.

I've actually painted everything black, including the inside of the roof, b and c pillars, all of the sides etc, its pretty dark in there.
a pillar trims have been refinished in satin black to blend in the flocked dash to the rest of the interior, including the satin black door trims etc.

believe it or not, I've gently brushed on satin hammerite smooth, a few places need a bit of tidying but for a track car finish I'm happy with it.
knowing its going to get scuffs and marks, I was a bit reluctant to pay to have it painted properly in a body shop.

 

[Kelv]

Sorry, link for you.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=290606913171

 

[Kelv]

Just thought I should add this.

​monday the car was at Bedford, it went really well and pretty much faultless all day until just after 4pm.
i let a mate take the car out, after a while of realising he hadn't come past the pits for a while I started to get worried, and then he comes in to sight being towed back in.
a little inspection revealed the engines trackday life had finally expired.

looks like a rod has tried to make its own doorway to the outside world.

​
but overal, not bad going for the mileage it was on when it finally let go.

 

[Fantom]

Will you be putting in another engine after all that hard work? Sure hope so

cheers for the link

 

[MG cup]

Really need to copy the way your seats have been done. I'm 6 foot 5 so lowering the seat will make a huge diff for me
Also interested in the paint you used

If your that tall mate then weld plates to the floor and then bolt your runners and seats to that, will give an extra 2" at least

 

[Fantom]

I don't think I'll need to go that low hopefully. In my old clio I just cut and rewelded the subframe and that was enough but this time if like to do it properly. I've already drilled new holes in the side mounts so I should be dropping low enough

 

[MG cup]

I don't think I'll need to go that low hopefully. In my old clio I just cut and rewelded the subframe and that was enough but this time if like to do it properly. I've already drilled new holes in the side mounts so I should be dropping low enough

I think Jon g on here done it that way with OMP side mounts bolted directly to the floor, some pics in his project thread. I have the same seat rails as kelv with OMP side mounts directly mounted to them without any runners. If I had it any lower I would be struggling to see over the dash and I'm 6'2".

 

[Kelv]

I'm 6'1", and I think I've got my seat heights pretty much spot on.
Jonny6 on the forum came out with me at Bedford and one of his first comments were 'I can't believe how low we are sitting'.

i guess it makes a big difference.

 

[Grant89]

I've actually painted everything black, including the inside of the roof, b and c pillars, all of the sides etc, its pretty dark in there. a pillar trims have been refinished in satin black to blend in the flocked dash to the rest of the interior, including the satin black door trims etc. believe it or not, I've gently brushed on satin hammerite smooth, a few places need a bit of tidying but for a track car finish I'm happy with it. knowing its going to get scuffs and marks, I was a bit reluctant to pay to have it painted properly in a body shop.

​
Ok mate, cheers for that. Did you prep it all properly I.e. rub it all back etc or just wipe it over with thinners quickly and then paint it straight on as the stuff I was looking at needs etch primer etc so hammerite seems the easier and much cheaper choice.

Tbh the pillars and panels were what I was worried about doing as thought I'd only get away with spraying those but if it looks acceptable by brushing on I'm happy with that. I'm the same as you though, don't see much point on having a show and shine glossy interior to chuck tools, spares and even luggage in (for ring trips). Just touch it up whenever it gets a bit tired looking I guess. Have thought about having the interior white but is the black that bad or could you easily live with it being that dark? I'm just thinking of summer days etc with mine when it'll be even more of an oven bein black on the outside too lol!


Also while I think of it, when you took your heater box out did you just remove the aircon rad, blank the opening off and then stick it all back in or have you removed it all together?

 

[Keith185]

That conrod really didn't want to stay in the engine lol. What's the plans now Kelv?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Whoopsy!

were you planning on doing Combe this Saturday?

 

[Kelv]

Not for me Chip, I won't be there.
are you back for this one?

my next trackday is at Bedford again mid May.

 

[aterro]

Very good mileage considering though!

Out of interest, how come your still running the full dash? ( you look to be on a weight saving mission)

 

[Chip-mk1]

Not for me Chip, I won't be there.
are you back for this one?

my next trackday is at Bedford again mid May.

Yeah im back in england again now mate and will be at combe on saturday although I dont yet know if I will be in the turbo trying out its new brakes if they are finished, or in the turbo with some temporary standard brakes, or if I will just use the Mrs Rs2 car instead, ive got a mate going with a stripped trophy with a standard engine that should be a good match for my mrs slightly more powerful but bit heavier car, so its quite tempting to just use that one so its more competitive, where as if I take the turbo I will just drive off into the distance and he wont get anywhere near me.

Mid may sounds like a bit of a rush but not too terrible, im sure you can sort it by then, if not then drop mike a line and im sure he can help you, he's good at last minute builds.

 

[Kelv]

Hope all goes well at Combe then chip, and fingers crossed the brakes are sorted.

im picking up a replacement engine mid week, so I'd imagine by the end of next weekend it should be back to where it was and usable again.
at the prices I these engines, ill snap another up over the coming few weeks and loom at having that one 'freshened up' while the car remains usable with the new engine.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yeah there is a lot to be said for disposable engines if you can fit them yourself.

Its very easy to spend 10K+ on one of these engines just to not be much quicker than a standard one with a bodies/rs2.

By not much quicker, I mean that for people like me and you who are used to 500bhp cars, wether a clio is 200 or 230 isnt really going to matter much, obviously it is still quicker, but just not by enough to stop it feeling slow to me and you, lol

 

[Kelv]

I certainly follow how you mean Chip, its probably one of the lowest powered cars I've ever had as a track toy, its great on the twisties but I understand completely that an additional 30bhp won't change its straight line performance to an amazing level.
i still feel there is a lot to be fine tunes within the suspension anyhow that could make the car a lot better rather than spending a fortune to squeeze out that extra 30bhp.

i am however 100% in my mind that it will end up on throttle bodies as the year progresses, even if the engine remains more or less standard..... ish!!

 

[Chip-mk1]

1500 quid or so for a set of secondhand bodies, bit of fuel for some road mapping, little bit of rolling road time and away you go, less than 2K all in probably, and if you ever decide it wasnt for you then you will get most of it back anyway.
Pretty minimal risk, the time you start potentially losing money is doing half a dozen grand building a decent spec engine and then miss a gear and grab 2nd instead of 4th or whatever. As potentially that way you turn something that cost you a lot into something worth nothing.

 

[Kelv]

Sounds like a plan Chip, ill be keeping my eyes peeled.

lifted the block/box out of the car last night, a pretty effortless task actually.
i haven't fully inspected the damage but with a quick glance I was quite surprised to see that it had also cracked through the sump.
thinking logically its not a surprise that it wouldn't let go aswell when the damage happened, I just didn't expect it until I saw it, if I make sense!?

 

[Cup_Phil]

I would definitely got the ITB route

It made a hell of a difference on track for mine and what really put me off cams is if the engine dies you have to rebuild them into a new block
I've got 194bhp on my bog standard engine and if it pops I can buy a £250 lump - swap my bodies onto it and drop it in in a weekend

 

[Kelv]

Phil, 194bhp with bodies?

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yep

Standard 172 engine, jenvey ITB's, omex 600, with 182 manifold and an oreca group n exhaust with 200 cell sports cat
194bhp

That was after an entire morning of mapping and it was red hot - We think it's probably more around 200bhp when cooled down but I've never had a power run since it was mapped.

I don't think the 182 manifold particularly does much for power but I had the subframe off doing some other bits so whacked one on

The bodies cost me £1600 second hand with linkage, pedal, cable, omex and everything basically
Mapping was £300 for a morning on the rollers as I started off with a good base map and it just needed tweeking
Getting a better filter and carbon air box and bits probably cost another £200 - so about £2100 all in

 

[Kelv]

That's not overal so bad atall.
it may only be 194bhp but id imagine you have a nice working window of power to utilise rather than that just being a peak figure.

what torque have you hit, or if up for mind could you pop over a graph you have please.

​cheers.

 

[Cup_Phil]

208nm of torque which I think is about 154lbs/ft

It's a very usable amount of power - that's one thing me and the mapper wanted to achieve rather than an impressive peak figure.
It pulls very very well out of corners I just need a diff next haha

I think it could do with 120mm trumpets to bring the power down a little bit - or revving a bit higher. But it's a 118k engine on standard rod bolts so not pushing it too far at the moment LOL

 

[Nick172Cup]

Personally Kelv, i'd go RS2 Xtra route myself. No doubt just as good as ITB's like Phils with the same power as his Cup but 156 lb'ft across the board. Again keeping the engine internals all standard bar maybe some ARP rod bolts so if the worst happens again you can just whip another engine in.

 

[Cup_Phil]

They don't make the RS2 Xtra any more - there was just a few made - they only do the standard one now

JamesT had a Trophy with an RS2 on it, fully stripped out and caged same as mine - it couldn't keep up with the ITB's at all.

Also not sure where you get those figures from - DanP has just cracked 200bhp with an RS2 but he had to add 197 cams and even then he's still only getting 146lb/ft

 

[Cup_Phil]

This is the graph from chip of an RS2'd engine

Down 5-8bhp on mine and only 150lbs/ft of torque

I'd rather have the extra torque above 5k cos you really don't drop below 5k on track

 

[Nick172Cup]

They don't make the RS2 Xtra any more - there was just a few made - they only do the standard one now

JamesT had a Trophy with an RS2 on it, fully stripped out and caged same as mine - it couldn't keep up with the ITB's at all.

Also not sure where you get those figures from - DanP has just cracked 200bhp with an RS2 but he had to add 197 cams and even then he's still only getting 146lb/ft

Yeah, I was one of two people with an RS2 Xtra Phil.

Are you really going to talk about negligable power differences between two different spec'd cars and how much quicker yours was? I could say the same that I obliterated 230bhp clios on track, doesnt mean anything though as I can probably peddle far more competantly than them...

It's been proven that the 197 cams sacrifice torque for out and out power, however with my setup (50mm extensions and standard cams) gave not much of a power increase but an 8lb/ft of torque increase.

No need to get defensive about it as well, both setups provide similar enough gains and drivability. I never once knocked the setup you have.

Nick

 

[Cup_Phil]

I wasn't talking about peddling around a track. Completely straight line the ITB's were significantly quicker

The standard RS2's make 150lbs/ft everywhere - yours were extended 50mm and made more torque
My ITB's would make more torque if I had 120mm trumpets too and fitting longer trumpets is a lot easier than extending the rs2 manifold

I'm not nocking it - I'm just saying you're recommending something that can't even be bought anymore so would have to be made, costs nearly the same as bodies and IMO isn't as fast.
If I was building a road/track car and wanted to keep the FBW then the RS2's are an awesome bit of kit, but for a proper track car you can't beat the torque and power delivery of proper bodies.

 

[Cup_Phil]

But anyway yeah the RS2 is an option -> http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...ake-Manifold-***-Group-Buy-Details-Inside-***

Costs £1145 + £300 mapping and you'd get 90% of the power and keep the standard fly by wire config and standard ecu
Works out around £4-500 cheaper depending on what price you get bodies + management for 2nd hand

 

[Nick172Cup]

I wasn't talking about peddling around a track. Completely straight line the ITB's were significantly quicker

The standard RS2's make 150lbs/ft everywhere - yours were extended 50mm and made more torque
My ITB's would make more torque if I had 120mm trumpets too and fitting longer trumpets is a lot easier than extending the rs2 manifold

I'm not nocking it - I'm just saying you're recommending something that can't even be bought anymore so would have to be made, costs nearly the same as bodies and IMO isn't as fast.
If I was building a road/track car and wanted to keep the FBW then the RS2's are an awesome bit of kit, but for a proper track car you can't beat the torque and power delivery of proper bodies.

First of all, wasnt JamesT's engine knackered and never even made near to 190bhp? So clearly your car will be a little bit quicker than it, though I still dont believe it pulled the amount you 'claim' to be.

Second of all it really is quite simple to recreate a RS2 Extra, Jenvey sell the extensions for £150 for the set. Bolt them onto the manifold (which do pop up on here now and again, plus they're being reproduced now also), get it mapped and bobs your uncle.

Tbh i'd just go with whatever's cheapest as at the end of the even if you have 5bhp / 5lb'ft of torque less, if you can save yourself £500 then that pays for a few trackdays which I think Kelv is more interested in.

Nick

 

[Kelv]

Not that I'm so bothered about the RS2, but isn't it being put on hold for 6 months?
​so not really ideal at present anyhow.

 

[Sir_Dave]

I could say the same that I obliterated 230bhp clios on track, doesnt mean anything though as I can probably peddle far more competantly than them...

lol, i did that at Bedford in a sick Trophy with dodgy cam timing

Dont forget Phil that your ITB's were 2nd hand! Anyways, Nick knows your setup very well, in fact he blasted down the motorway next to Guppy's shed when we bought it iirc. Sounded lovely, but from memory, it couldnt keep up with Nicks RS2 extra'd car, but we wont start that debate lol ...

RS2 new is £1.5k or so
ITB's new are twice the price iirc

90% of the power/torque for 50% of the price, seems ideal.