ClioSport.net
Register a free account today to become a member!
Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Read more here.
TwentyValver Project Thread
- Thread starter Mark One
- Start date
i would never pass up this good a opportunity to school goddards love child, plus we all know mark works better with our encouragement
looking forward to wales when this is finished mark
Should have a few more pennies next Friday.... and a red VW :rasp:
Project looks good dude- I'd brace the underside of your nearside engine mount though, triangulate it to the chassis leg on the overhang.
Sad fact is, you'll still get beaten by a Polo
A Polo or your Polo :lolup:
Nice one Mark, nice to see it after you wanting to do it for so long!
ValverInBits
Update #2
I finished this 3rd engine mount a little while ago and I've spent some time wondering whether i'm happy with it or not.
The problem with it becomes clear further down.
Firstly. The bolt holes for the VAG dog-bone are further over to the N/S of the car. This means I needed to move the mounting for the dogbone on the subframe over to the N/S
Subframe out (again)
Remove the Renault Dogbone support.
Grind the bit that I don't need
Then I spent some time grinding the Galv off the subframe and welding in a new support for the dogbone mount.
Then, I started with one of my old valver wishbone bushes,
Chopped it out.
I then needed to mount this into some box section. I couldn't think of any other way of getting a 40mm diamter hole through my 3mm wall box section. So I used a grinder to cut a half circle profile in two bits of box section and welded them together in the middle. The result was a little better than expected. It's a friction fit in there and needs drifting in and out with a hammer.
Then I turned my attention to the VW OEM dogbone mount.
The Left mounts to the underside of the engine and the right to the subframe on a standard Golf MK4
Remove the bush on the right and your left with
Remove some more and your left with
Leaving the locating lugs from the original casting, I did this:
Eventually Left with this
I'll get some pics of it from under the car in a tick.
Problem
My problem with it, is that it's had to be bent to meet up with the engine correctly. This means the engine will be pushed side to side slightly by the dogbone under accel/engine braking. I've not decided whether to ditch it and go for a different one yet but I'm happy with the positioning of the engine.
Other News
I've been in touch with a guy who worked for ProDrive as a TIG welder. He's recently started his own fabrications business and I asked if he could do me a turbo manifold. He came round to take a look. He wants to make it in 316 stainless (which I've been told before is the best 1 to have), Top-central mounted turbo :evil:, equal length. He's quoted a very reasonable price so I'm expecting to receive that in about 1 month
Sold the 172 on friday :dapprove:. P/X for a Red VW Polo 6N Saloon 1.9 SDI. 600miles to the tank I'm told, But slower than a glacier. The extra cash will help me finish this car though.
Going back to stable fabrications in towcester on monday to ask about driveshafts, as my clearance between shaft and chassis leg looks ok.
FAO Clever people
Driveshafts - I'm going to try and match the torsional rigidities -> Same torque = Same Degrees of twist in each shaft. Is this a worthwhile thing to do to limit torque steer or a waste of time?
Seam Welding engine bay - Worth it on the clio? Where to weld?
I finished this 3rd engine mount a little while ago and I've spent some time wondering whether i'm happy with it or not.
The problem with it becomes clear further down.
Firstly. The bolt holes for the VAG dog-bone are further over to the N/S of the car. This means I needed to move the mounting for the dogbone on the subframe over to the N/S
Subframe out (again)
Remove the Renault Dogbone support.
Grind the bit that I don't need
Then I spent some time grinding the Galv off the subframe and welding in a new support for the dogbone mount.
Then, I started with one of my old valver wishbone bushes,
Chopped it out.
I then needed to mount this into some box section. I couldn't think of any other way of getting a 40mm diamter hole through my 3mm wall box section. So I used a grinder to cut a half circle profile in two bits of box section and welded them together in the middle. The result was a little better than expected. It's a friction fit in there and needs drifting in and out with a hammer.
Then I turned my attention to the VW OEM dogbone mount.
The Left mounts to the underside of the engine and the right to the subframe on a standard Golf MK4
Remove the bush on the right and your left with
Remove some more and your left with
Leaving the locating lugs from the original casting, I did this:
Eventually Left with this
I'll get some pics of it from under the car in a tick.
Problem
My problem with it, is that it's had to be bent to meet up with the engine correctly. This means the engine will be pushed side to side slightly by the dogbone under accel/engine braking. I've not decided whether to ditch it and go for a different one yet but I'm happy with the positioning of the engine.
Other News
I've been in touch with a guy who worked for ProDrive as a TIG welder. He's recently started his own fabrications business and I asked if he could do me a turbo manifold. He came round to take a look. He wants to make it in 316 stainless (which I've been told before is the best 1 to have), Top-central mounted turbo :evil:, equal length. He's quoted a very reasonable price so I'm expecting to receive that in about 1 month
Sold the 172 on friday :dapprove:. P/X for a Red VW Polo 6N Saloon 1.9 SDI. 600miles to the tank I'm told, But slower than a glacier. The extra cash will help me finish this car though.
Going back to stable fabrications in towcester on monday to ask about driveshafts, as my clearance between shaft and chassis leg looks ok.
FAO Clever people
Driveshafts - I'm going to try and match the torsional rigidities -> Same torque = Same Degrees of twist in each shaft. Is this a worthwhile thing to do to limit torque steer or a waste of time?
Seam Welding engine bay - Worth it on the clio? Where to weld?
ITB'd MK1
would the fab guy be Chris (goes by "northern chris" on forums) ??
Equal length driveshafts would defintely be better, i think you'll struggle though, the space is restrictive to say the least
Equal length driveshafts would defintely be better, i think you'll struggle though, the space is restrictive to say the least
ValverInBits
Nope, Manifold Fab guy is Johnathan Deeley. Seem some photos of his previous work and I'm certinally happy that he's up to the job.
I'm never going to get equal length driveshafts in there. That'll be a real nightmare with the downpipe interfering with the intermediate bearing. What I was talking about was literally having the longer driveshaft stronger than the shorter. This would give the same affect as equal length. (Torque*Length)/(ShearModulus*J-Value)=Twist angle.
However. This does nothing to help the fact that the CV joints on either side are doing to be at different angles as ultimately I can't put in an intermediate shaft.
Last edited:
ValverInBits
Heres the pics of it fitted.
I've also been trying to shift the engine with my foot on the sump to try and stress the dogbone. There is a very slight shift of the engine transversely which the other 2 engine mounts can't really resist. So I'm now thinking I might have another go.....but that's ok, as i've had a really good idea.
Off to ask about driveshafts tommorrow.
I've also been trying to shift the engine with my foot on the sump to try and stress the dogbone. There is a very slight shift of the engine transversely which the other 2 engine mounts can't really resist. So I'm now thinking I might have another go.....but that's ok, as i've had a really good idea.
Off to ask about driveshafts tommorrow.
looking good, but i wouldnt be happy with that angle myself. It may well work but it would bug the f**k out of me knowing it could be better!
Also LOL at the mech schooling, ooh if pat could see you now...
I cant wait for this to be done so i can watch you wrestle it in a straight line on the A43...
Also LOL at the mech schooling, ooh if pat could see you now...
I cant wait for this to be done so i can watch you wrestle it in a straight line on the A43...
JDM Dc2
thumbs up to you mate, cant wait to see this completed!, and cant wait to see this manifold!!!
is this the 1st VAG MK1??
^^ i take it as a no lol
is this the 1st VAG MK1??
^^ i take it as a no lol
ValverInBits
Definitely going to have another look at that dogbone mount, going to think about using the whole of the VAG OEM part with the rear of the subframe modified to suit.
Been looking at driveshafts today. Developments soon hopefully.
Thanks for the email you sent me last year flan, that's what eventually sparked this project off.
Been looking at driveshafts today. Developments soon hopefully.
Thanks for the email you sent me last year flan, that's what eventually sparked this project off.
it wont fit and will still be on the wonk, why dont you use the front section (like you have) but bolt it to a solid mount on the back of the subframe. There is allready a rubbermount on the gearbox mount.
Anytime Dude
ValverInBits
Yes. Really :approve:oh really
Just got off the phone to a company called GB engineering in Nantwich (Nr crewe)
They do new manufacture custom length shafts with any spline you like on either end for 160 per side. Seems pretty good to me. Then I'll have 1 piece custom shafts that I can clip OEM CV joints to. Need to finalise the measurements now.
1
182kev
Great project and will be keeping a close eye on it!
I think there are 2 types of Clio cv joint. One looks like an actual knuckle and
the other is like a tipod with 3 rollers... Use the knuckel type. I used the
other on one side (I think I had lower grade one kicking about and mixed them up) lol
but just make sure coz the other ones fall apart.. Lol
as for insurance. If u call Adrian Flux. They take the insurance group of the valver and the golf... The same so u just pay extra for mods.
Ecu,filter,exhaust... Ect
the other is like a tipod with 3 rollers... Use the knuckel type. I used the
other on one side (I think I had lower grade one kicking about and mixed them up) lol
but just make sure coz the other ones fall apart.. Lol
as for insurance. If u call Adrian Flux. They take the insurance group of the valver and the golf... The same
so u just pay extra for mods. Ecu,filter,exhaust... Ect
ValverInBits
The renault CVs i've used have 6 ball bearings in......i'd describe it as more of a knuckle than a tripod.
I've finished mocking up the shafts. Spent ages trying to make sure they were ok. Jacking up, full-lock.....jumping on the front end, full lock. Luckily the car is really low at the mo, so I think I got a good idea of the travel of the CV joints. Little worried about the N/S (shorter) driveshaft at full travel, but I think when I get round to buying coilovers that will reign in the maximum travel anyway. The other bonus is chassis leg-driveshaft clearance looks fine, not going to have any problems there
Few pics of it later.
ValverInBits
An update of what's been going on over the past few weeks.
It's been really slowing up as I struggle to work out what parts I need and wait for things to be done etc etc, The cash is becoming a massive issue now.....please send donations :approve:
Just wasn't happy with the last dogbone mount. What with the angle it was at, the extra lateral leverage on the other engine mounts caused by the adapters etc, I just decided to start again.
New mount is essentially a f**king girder. It will allow less engine movement which will make the car pretty harsh, but easier on the downpipe/boost pipes.
Started out the same:
Then made this bit that bolts onto a stirdy looking lug on the gearbox.
The two box sections used are different. The one for the bush is 50x30 and the one on the car is 40x40. By taking 10mm off one side of each (making 40x30), i managed to join them together pretty neatly. I was pretty pleased with the results.
Sprayed up and extra strength welded in at weakest section
After that was done, I needed to remove the head to take to my fabricator to have the manifold made.
Pulled the engine out and removed the rocker cover.
The head bolts......looked a bit like torx, but could tell they were different.
After some detective work I found out they are "Ribe".
Going to need to grind up one of those to get the torque right when I refit.
10 head bolts out and the head off. No bent valves and an entact headgasket from what I can see. All looks good
all looks in order, little carbon deposit, no more than expected
Head went away for the manifold fabrication.
Next, the bottom end.
original clutch coming off:
Clutch
20vTurbos come with a "dual mass" flywheel as standard. I still don't quite get this, but it means the flywheel has to be replaced with the clutch. Everyone recommends a G60 flywheel (which I am still looking for).
As for a clutch to go with the G60 flywheel, I'm after something that will take 340lbft so hopefully it will withstand the limit of the turbo's capabilities. I rang Helix (who are just down the road). They quoted me £470! This is not something I can afford. A mate put me in the direction of CG clutches who will do a paddleclutch for £266. I've got no idea if they are any good and I'm tempted to just stick a VR6 clutch on it for the min (they handle around 280lbft).
Bit stumped there.
Finally got hold of an engine stand, Ben helped me out having the sump off.
Pleased with the condition in the bottom end
I removed the old plastic impellor waterpump, which was starting to fail (second pic)
Painted the engine up. Nice sensible practical colour
Got a little box of bits from GSF (oil pump, new metal impellor water pump, cambelt kit, head gasket kit) still some more bits to source, will probably have to go to VW.
Another post coming later with some pics of the manifold progress
cheers
Mark
It's been really slowing up as I struggle to work out what parts I need and wait for things to be done etc etc, The cash is becoming a massive issue now.....please send donations :approve:
Just wasn't happy with the last dogbone mount. What with the angle it was at, the extra lateral leverage on the other engine mounts caused by the adapters etc, I just decided to start again.
New mount is essentially a f**king girder. It will allow less engine movement which will make the car pretty harsh, but easier on the downpipe/boost pipes.
Started out the same:
Then made this bit that bolts onto a stirdy looking lug on the gearbox.
The two box sections used are different. The one for the bush is 50x30 and the one on the car is 40x40. By taking 10mm off one side of each (making 40x30), i managed to join them together pretty neatly. I was pretty pleased with the results.
Sprayed up and extra strength welded in at weakest section
After that was done, I needed to remove the head to take to my fabricator to have the manifold made.
Pulled the engine out and removed the rocker cover.
The head bolts......looked a bit like torx, but could tell they were different.
After some detective work I found out they are "Ribe".
Going to need to grind up one of those to get the torque right when I refit.
10 head bolts out and the head off. No bent valves and an entact headgasket from what I can see. All looks good
all looks in order, little carbon deposit, no more than expected
Head went away for the manifold fabrication.
Next, the bottom end.
original clutch coming off:
Clutch
20vTurbos come with a "dual mass" flywheel as standard. I still don't quite get this, but it means the flywheel has to be replaced with the clutch. Everyone recommends a G60 flywheel (which I am still looking for).
As for a clutch to go with the G60 flywheel, I'm after something that will take 340lbft so hopefully it will withstand the limit of the turbo's capabilities. I rang Helix (who are just down the road). They quoted me £470! This is not something I can afford. A mate put me in the direction of CG clutches who will do a paddleclutch for £266. I've got no idea if they are any good and I'm tempted to just stick a VR6 clutch on it for the min (they handle around 280lbft).
Bit stumped there.
Finally got hold of an engine stand, Ben helped me out having the sump off.
Pleased with the condition in the bottom end
I removed the old plastic impellor waterpump, which was starting to fail (second pic)
Painted the engine up. Nice sensible practical colour
Got a little box of bits from GSF (oil pump, new metal impellor water pump, cambelt kit, head gasket kit) still some more bits to source, will probably have to go to VW.
Another post coming later with some pics of the manifold progress
cheers
Mark
Nice bit of progress there
ValverInBits
I won't give it up, fo sho
I'm fully aware that once it's rolling it will need plenty of tweaks and then there's also the shell to sort out.....which isn't h'exactly...mint....:dapprove:
Next on the list is Piston rings and gudgeon pin clips, and I've just been told that a bore hone would be a good idea. Rings are a really annoying unexpected cost, not entirely sure what to do but just bite the bullet with VW.
U been looking at my pictures again
dude. Have u checked that the turbo will fit on the engine
bay with a top mount turbo. That's gonna be very close to the bulkhead and
brake lines. Not sure how u have mounted ur engine but the ones
I did the engine tips back slightly untill the cam cove is one 1-2" from the
brake reservoir.
What turbo u running. T3? gt28rs?
How much is that manifold, recon he could make an IHI one
dude. Have u checked that the turbo will fit on the engine
bay with a top mount turbo. That's gonna be very close to the bulkhead and
brake lines. Not sure how u have mounted ur engine but the ones
I did the engine tips back slightly untill the cam cove is one 1-2" from the
brake reservoir.
What turbo u running. T3? gt28rs?
How much is that manifold, recon he could make an IHI one
ValverInBits
The guy is a legend and can near enough anything, especially if you can find an engineering drawing of the flange. Me and the guy making the manifold spent along time deciding on turbo position. It's quite close to the bonnet (rain catcher will probably have to go), bulkhead clearance is fine, and yeah, I'm pretty close to the brake master cylinder too, but the manifold and turbo clears it easily. The brake lines are further down the bulkhead and they won't see most of the heat, and i've got a RSi heat shield guarding them all (no idea where i got that idea )
It's a GT28RS, but due to lack of cash it'll only initially be running tops of 270-280bhp as I can't afford pistons (to drop CR), rings, bore hone, etc etc.
I'm actually going to leave the BE stock for now, which is a shame, as I've already got rods.
I'll PM you a price on the manifold. It's fully back-purged, guy has many years experience welding for Prodrive, he's based in farthinghoe (just up the road from brackley) so not too far from you. Mine should be done by wednesday.
)It's a GT28RS, but due to lack of cash it'll only
initially be running tops of 270-280bhp as I can't afford pistons (to drop CR), rings, bore hone, etc etc. I'm actually going to leave the BE stock for now, which is a shame, as I've already got rods.
I'll PM you a price on the manifold. It's fully back-purged, guy has many years experience welding for Prodrive, he's based in farthinghoe (just up the road from brackley) so not too far from you. Mine should be done by wednesday.
ValverInBits
Little Update, the manifold is done, gotta go pick that up tommorrow. Farkin excited.
This turned up today:
Anyone who's interested in the size, give me a PM. It's about the biggest thing you can realistically get behind a MK1 bumper. The bumper is still going to need a little modification (but then what the f**k doesent on this project). I'll be mounting it this week sometime with a bit of luck.
Spent a while today fabricating some extra support for the engine mounts. The VAG mounts have another lug on the back which is used on the OEM cars, so i've decided it'd be a good idea to use it on my project. I've come up with a couple of supports, pics of those possibly tommorrow.
This turned up today:
Anyone who's interested in the size, give me a PM. It's about the biggest thing you can realistically get behind a MK1 bumper. The bumper is still going to need a little modification (but then what the f**k doesent on this project). I'll be mounting it this week sometime with a bit of luck.
Spent a while today fabricating some extra support for the engine mounts. The VAG mounts have another lug on the back which is used on the OEM cars, so i've decided it'd be a good idea to use it on my project. I've come up with a couple of supports, pics of those possibly tommorrow.
Dude, drop me a line tomorrow when you're up here, working nights at the moment (hence replying at half 2 in the morning).
K04 225bhp (BAM engine) has a smaller port head and a weaker bottom end than the AGU Mark's using
Manifold looks good mate, probably worthwhile thinking about some extra support for the turbo too, just takes the stress out of the manifold
K04 225bhp (BAM engine) has a smaller port head and a weaker bottom end than the AGU Mark's using
Manifold looks good mate, probably worthwhile thinking about some extra support for the turbo too, just takes the stress out of the manifold
