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270bhp Clio 172 cup with Audi TT engine



F

Floodie

  172 cup TT
Hi all,

After almost 2 years of her being off the road and me being given the absolute runaround by someone :( good old FLAN (Stu') has saved the day by picking her up the other night to continue and finish her off....

Undecided as to whats going in yet (maybe ;) ) but wanted to start the thread so me and Flan can update it...

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...e/noengine.jpg

Cheers all
Floodie
 
Last edited by a moderator:
P

pinky

Re: Cup TT ??

20vT are very sort after..they are just soooo tuneable.
If you think about it..I have one in a car that weighs nearly 1 1/2 ton..your is less than 1.
 
K-Tec Racing

K-Tec Racing

ClioSport Trader
  172LBT-172HBT-197-R2
Re: Cup TT ??

20v engine is good, but its heavy so needs MORE power

Min 300bhp to make it worth doing.

To do it properly though is not easy, as it needs engine mounts, alot of subframe work.

if its big power custom shafts are a must as well.
 
F

FlansS14

  Williams20V-306BHP
Re: Cup TT ??

K-Tec Racing said:
20v engine is good, but its heavy so needs MORE power

Min 300bhp to make it worth doing.
Click to expand...

how can a 1.8 engine be heavier than a 2.0? There both cast blocks with alloy heads.The renault lump is a big old unit.. the Vag lump looks small in comparison. ok so you have to add a turbo, pipework and an intercooler.. say 20kg max

Why do you need 300bhp to make it worth doing? everyone knows bhp sells cars but torque wins race's.... and kills Renault box's ;)
 
F

Floodie

  172 cup TT
Re: Cup TT ??

Hi CrazyCup - Yep, in all honesty, it has been pretty much a nightmare for the past 18 months or so. All I can say is, no matter how well you know someone, family/friends do not hand over large amounts of money unless you have your back covered!... Ive learnt a painful lesson - Don't get me wrong ive been sooo close to just getting rid and forgetting about it all but I bloody cant, don't think I can grow up :) - and that's where good ol' Flan comes in :)
 
Mark One

Mark One

  ValverInBits
Re: Cup TT ??

K-Tec Racing said:
20v engine is good, but its heavy so needs MORE power

Min 300bhp to make it worth doing.

To do it properly though is not easy, as it needs engine mounts, alot of subframe work.

if its big power custom shafts are a must as well.
Click to expand...

I'd agree that the 20v is a little heavier, but it's no worse than having someone in the passenger seat. The idea of saying 300bhp miniumum is worthwhile is pretty daft tbh. You know as well as I that it'd fly with a mid-k04 tune @around 250bhp/250lbft.
Subframe reworking can be done in a day (just). Engine mounts take more time and some thought, and as for driveshafts - check :approve:
Compared to say an F4R turbo, I think the 20v offers a stonger gearbox (hence why scoff has gone for a VAG box) along with a turbo optimised engine from the outset. If your going to include labour, it's pretty difficult to make a 20v conversion cheaper, but not impossible.

What stage is this at now? Good luck with it mate.
 
F

FlansS14

  Williams20V-306BHP
Re: Cup TT ??

Very true, were not trying to upset anyone just do something different ;)

i would love to weigh the two engines with the box although i do not have a renault lump to compare. The MK1 i built came in at 980kg with a full tank and full interior and spare wheel... the factory figure for a williams is 990-1010kg (where's Matt Black when you need him) ;)

at the moment the car is in a sad way. The 20v engine is in place with mounts made.. but thats it. ane even there in the wrong place. Ive told Dave (floddie) that im starting again from scratch.

not 100% settled on the spec yet but it should be 300ish bhp on a td04/ihi turbo with std internals, Emerald ecu, evo intercooler, 440's and a few other bits.

should be ready for a few track days next year.. hopefully?
 
Last edited:
Scrooge

Scrooge

ClioSport Moderator
  E55 AMG
Re: Cup TT ??

1.8 vag unit,excellent engine and tuning potential.10x more reliable than the 2.0 renault engine. Would like to see a diesel vag unit transplat one day tho
 
Mark One

Mark One

  ValverInBits
Re: Cup TT ??

My only reasoning for thinking that the 20v is heavier is my car looks lower at the front than it did with the F7P in it, but it's not much, and my sh1t old suspension could be sagging.
Deadlines flan.....horrible things :D, mine is 2 months overdue as is.

Edit: flan Can i put in a cheeky hijack and ask what the 02J gear ratios are like at ~80mph in 5th?
 
Last edited:
F

FlansS14

  Williams20V-306BHP
Re: Cup TT ??

thats coz you've made yours complicated ;) should have run a std k04 then upgraded ;)

oh... have you been writing into the magazines again? ;)

photo-22.jpg
 
R

Revo Kev

Re: Cup TT ??

Worthwhile note on the injectors; if you're running 440cc greentops then I'd recomend switching to something like the genesis 550cc setup to get the 'correct' or more suited spray pattern. Seen lots of issues with rough idling/misfire on greentops due to the spray pattern!
 
F

FlansS14

  Williams20V-306BHP
Re: Cup TT ??

Mark One said:
flan Can i put in a cheeky hijack and ask what the 02J gear ratios are like at ~80mph in 5th?
Click to expand...

there quite good.. .running 195/50/15's it cruised nicely not sure exactly but it did 102mph@5907 rpm so you can work it out from that... about 4600@80

ignore that... thats in 4th lol
 
Mark One

Mark One

  ValverInBits
Re: Cup TT ??

:S 102@5907 is not as leggy as I was hoping :(
owned on the magazine! Was having trouble coming up with mounts for the N/S. and FYI I don't make a habbit of writing into magazines! lol

edit: oops, I get it, they are both 4th! lol
 
MATT BLACK

MATT BLACK

  MERCEDES CLS AMG
Re: Cup TT ??

I have a freshly prepared, good for 500 bhp AGU engine ( bored to 1900cc, JE pistons, IE rods ) just needs a turbo and management - £1500

With the right blower you will see 11's - if youve got the balls

inters7-1.jpg


Imgp0766.jpg


rebuildpics5007.jpg


DSCF5131.jpg
 
Last edited:
C

chris_p

  Z4
Re: Cup TT ??

too many people on here live their lives by numbers.

As I said in my original post, it's not a fun engine! Yes it can be made to be fast, that doesn't make it fun. Mine's running arounf 270bhp so I feel I can comment on that.
 
Mark One

Mark One

  ValverInBits
Re: Cup TT ??

Normally "not a fun engine" also means really really linear torque and a lovely clean power curve with no 'kicks'. They can be mapped in if you want them....
tbh, are you positive it's not the chassis that lacks lols?
 
F

FlansS14

  Williams20V-306BHP
Re: Cup TT ??

chris_p said:
too many people on here live their lives by numbers.

As I said in my original post, it's not a fun engine! Yes it can be made to be fast, that doesn't make it fun. Mine's running arounf 270bhp so I feel I can comment on that.
Click to expand...

You cant compare a TT to a Clio cup with a 20v lump.. you just cant!


Its heavier, has a quattro system killing the power, traction control...ect and its a bit girly ;)

i feel i can coment on that as my Girlfriend has one :D
 
C

chris_p

  Z4
Re: Cup TT ??

FlansS14 said:
You cant compare a TT to a Clio cup with a 20v lump.. you just cant!


Its heavier, has a quattro system killing the power, traction control...ect and its a bit girly ;)

i feel i can coment on that as my Girlfriend has one :D
Click to expand...

The engine charecteristics will still be the same! Sounds very boring..
 
F

FlansS14

  Williams20V-306BHP
Re: Cup TT ??

chris_p said:
The engine charecteristics will still be the same! Sounds very boring..
Click to expand...

They will be toooootaly different with a different turbo, intercooler and programmable ecu. Not to mention there two tooooootaly different cars?
 
R

Revo Kev

Re: Cup TT ??

It can be a great engine with the right bits on it in the right car, it's certainly a different engine to a 2.0l 16v though. A lot of 'boring' engines can be made interesting with the right setup and car. The problem with the VAG cars is driver feedback and feeling, they aren't built as drivers cars. The 1.8T engine characteristics can be massively altered depending on the turbo you run, and the tuning/setup.
 
MATT BLACK

MATT BLACK

  MERCEDES CLS AMG
Re: Cup TT ??

chris_p said:
The engine charecteristics will still be the same! Sounds very boring..
Click to expand...



No they wont - the original Clio TT i built in 2004 was running over 400 bhp in a 750 kg car.......

I used to pull up at GTI international and nail most golfs and audi's running the same block.


My pal jordy is running nearly 700 bhp in his car now and his quickest time to date is a 10.07 @ 141 mph.


GTIinternational2009004.jpg
 
Mark One

Mark One

  ValverInBits
Re: Cup TT ??

chris_p said:
The engine charecteristics will still be the same! Sounds very boring..
Click to expand...
next time you drive your 20v, try and work out what it is that makes it boring, mechanically. I bet you'll find it's something like it's got too heavy a flywheel or something. These are all things that can be changed. Don't confuse a boring setup with a boring engine.

apologies to the OP, the first two pages of your project thread are now 20v rants!
 
F

Floodie

  172 cup TT
Last edited by a moderator:
Max46

Max46

  BG 182
Re: Cup TT ??

where abouts in leighton buzzard are you based Flanss14 im near heath and reach.
 
F

FlansS14

  Williams20V-306BHP
Re: Cup TT ??

Near Stanbridge dude,

Fook me Dave... looks like were gonna need a new actuator? did you drop it!

you did say it was heavy ;)
 
Daz.

Daz.

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 200 RS EDC
Re: Cup TT ??

I always read the framed mag coverage of Jordys beast when I'm getting the mot's done. Always makes me smile...

Is that a recent shot Matt? last time I saw it it only had half its new kit on..
 
MATT BLACK

MATT BLACK

  MERCEDES CLS AMG
Re: Cup TT ??

Unusual choice of turbo ?



The scirocco is now fully built and raced at a few events last year.
 
F

Floodie

  172 cup TT
Re: Cup TT ??

FlansS14 said:
Near Stanbridge dude,

Fook me Dave... looks like were gonna need a new actuator? did you drop it!

you did say it was heavy ;)
Click to expand...

haha did i balls... it came like that, annoying i know :). Youll see what i mean about the weight, its ridiculous.. its the huge lump of iron stuck to the back of it!.. youll see :)
 
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