BIGASH/FF-Racing X85 Clio Cup Racer Project

[NorthloopCup]

big gash LOL

Oops - must've been a typo there!! Lol!

 

[EVOgone]

Will be interesting if this cures the strange handling when he fits new bearings. Mine feels as if it rear steers but its got too much toe in at the rear 6mm so will see what its like when I shim it parallel.

 

[Fred@BTM]

This car almost feels like torque steer from the front, weird handling anyway!

 

[NorthloopCup]

Will be interesting if this cures the strange handling when he fits new bearings. Mine feels as if it rear steers but its got too much toe in at the rear 6mm so will see what its like when I shim it parallel.

Have you jacked your car up and checked for any movement in the rear beam out of interest? After seeing big gash's misfortunes, it definitely sowed a seed of doubt in my mind for mine - hence checking it. I would've expected the toe in on the rear of yours to make it more stable as well tbh. Strange.

 

[frenchthing]

Sounds like if you die grind a good prep and blast a mig weld in there you should be good, especially with a decent bearing compound.. if the bearing is still loose loctite do some very good filler/retainer compounds..

 

[p@blo]

Were the bearings and the carriers both in spec when they were first fitted? Could one side being even slightly slack have accelerated the wear you're seeing now?

Unlucky with the off dude, thankful you were able to scrub a bit of speed off. Hopefully fixing the beam shoud sort the odd handling you & Fred have mentioned

 

[BIGASH]

Thanks guys for all the nice comments about the photos

So im clear is it moving up and down (so bearing diameter is smaller and the bush dia) rather than side to side moving (between the bush shoulder and the circlip)?

It is moving side to side betwean the bush shoulder and the circlip

For those that have the pms rear beam kit fitted, James has spoken to nick @ pms today and on James's car it's purely looking like a complete one off. I spoke to big gash whilst he was on his lunch break today and this is the general gist of what nick told him:
1) He's never ever had an issue with the rear beam kit they offer
2) Ideally the bearing housing should be welded in to the rear beam rather than tig welded ( like James's is) as the heat transfer from mig is greater, causing the housings to shrink slightly and make the bearing an interference fit.
3) Use bearing lock to help secure the bearing in the housing (pms do this on all of their spherical conversion kits apparently), and if James fits new bearings into his rear beam now and uses bearing lock, it will be fine and shouldn't suffer from this issue again.

I'm sure James will be on later to fill in any gaps that I've missed off.

I run this kit on my track car and have done since 2010. I'm still on the original bearings supplied in the kit, and when I raised it up to check them today all was fine. I ragged it hard enough to near enough pull the car off the axle stands! Mines had quite a hard time as well tbh and seen a good 4k's worth of road mileage, over 700 miles of track work with at least 300 miles of that being covered at the nordschleife.

​Hope that helps to put people more at ease.

Nail on head thanks Mark Couldn't get on myself so thanks for that!

Will be interesting if this cures the strange handling when he fits new bearings. Mine feels as if it rear steers but its got too much toe in at the rear 6mm so will see what its like when I shim it parallel.

I don't really find much of a handling issue like Fred did, 6mm toe in? Are you sure not 6 mins? If it is 6mm then it will be scrubbing the life out of the rear tyres surely?

This car almost feels like torque steer from the front, weird handling anyway!

I'm just used to it lol but Howard says the same as you!

Sounds like if you die grind a good prep and blast a mig weld in there you should be good, especially with a decent bearing compound.. if the bearing is still loose loctite do some very good filler/retainer compounds..

Thanks Stu, I think I will try get the casings out and turn them the correct way round and then MIG a new set in just so I know they are okay

Were the bearings and the carriers both in spec when they were first fitted? Could one side being even slightly slack have accelerated the wear you're seeing now?

Unlucky with the off dude, thankful you were able to scrub a bit of speed off. Hopefully fixing the beam shoud sort the odd handling you & Fred have mentioned

Yes both seemed fine mate but as Nick said to me today on the phone if it wasn't a firm fit and it was able to move then it would only get worse and worse so I should of used the Loctite bearing lock in the first place. Lesson learnt for me

Thanks!

 

[EVOgone]

This car almost feels like torque steer from the front, weird handling anyway!

interesting as that's how I would describe it to. Is like the rear mid corner wants to turn the corner more but you haven't put more lock on? Like active steering.

interested if locking the bearings does make a change or its exactly the same, come on ash hurry up ;-)

 

[BIGASH]

interesting as that's how I would describe it to. Is like the rear mid corner wants to turn the corner more but you haven't put more lock on? Like active steering.

interested if locking the bearings does make a change or its exactly the same, come on ash hurry up ;-)

Haha mine isn't going back on track until the 18th September i'm afraid Steve, using this as an opportunity so sort a few other bits and pieces

I will update with how I get on though

 

[BIGASH]

Rear beam sorted

Managed to win a trackday for Rockingham at the weekend but obviously my car wasn't going to be ready and with me working everyday until Sunday it was looking very unlikely. While at Cadwell Ian had offered to bring my gearbox back up from Agency on his way up North. Really kindly he collected it yesterday from Agency and brought it up today! Owe Ian big time thank you very much mate It's amazing how many kind people I have met on this forum and peoples generosity never ceases to amaze me!

Got home with the box and set about getting it fitted and in the car. Had a quick once over the box, Agency had given it a really good clean so nice and easy to look around and check it. Then with my typical luck I found a hairline crack in the paint, I scraped the paint away and sure enough it went through the casing into a wet part of the box. Got my finger through where the passenger side driveshaft goes and I can feel the crack on the inside and also could push oil through the crack so its definitely f**ked. Proper goosed and fed up now

 

[Jay Payne]

Job Done :approve:

 

[BIGASH]

Yeah few people have said the same Jay, Don't see how it will stick really Can't risk it and then have it fail and piss the oil back out again

 

[Jay Payne]

Ive repaired fuel tanks, sumps, high pressure pas pipes, oil coolers etc with it. You be amazed how good it is

 

[BIGASH]

I should carry some in my spares box If it were in the car I would do it and see but no point in a temporary fix while its out of the car.

 

[Jay Payne]

Paint over it once its done, premanent repair then

 

[BIGASH]

Haha I love your thinking What do you think to welding it Jay one of my mates has epic skills with ally welding but im worried the heat will knacker the seals/bearings?

 

[Jay Payne]

Surely would need doing with the box stripped?

 

[BIGASH]

That's what I thought but a chap on Facebook says it would be fine :S

 

[Jay Payne]

If facebook says its ok then it must be. I was just guessing, ive no idea whats involved

 

[BIGASH]

Haha! Yes I would of agreed with you but the chap who's saying it knows his stuff so I guess I could be wrong lol

 

[NorthloopCup]

I'd imagine your box has seen more heat than the welding would cause anyway tbh. It nearly burnt my hand when I touched the casing at mallory. The only issue I can see in getting it welded is getting it clean enough for the tig to weld without spitting its dummy out. It's very sensitive as to how clean the area is.

To use the quicksteel you need to rough the area up and give it something to key to and leave it to go off. It will dry rock hard and stick like s**t to a blanket. I'm 99% confident it'll work and remain leak free.

​Out there somewhere is a scania r560 that had some severe corrosion issues on the block face and it kept causing a head gasket to leak. The area was cleaned and filled with quicksteel, then flatted off with a file and finished with a whetstone. Head bolted back on and the result was no leaks......... The guy kept it for another 18 months and sold it on. In that time it covered a further 350,000kms with mainly 44tonne on its back. Lol!

 

[Kenny.s]

I'd imagine your box has seen more heat than the welding would cause anyway tbh. It nearly burnt my hand when I touched the casing at mallory. The only issue I can see in getting it welded is getting it clean enough for the tig to weld without spitting its dummy out. It's very sensitive as to how clean the area is.

To use the quicksteel you need to rough the area up and give it something to key to and leave it to go off. It will dry rock hard and stick like s**t to a blanket. I'm 99% confident it'll work and remain leak free.

2nd that, I've also used it in some pretty unfavourable situations and been amazed at how well it works.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I used it on a hole in the gearbox casing on my 306 - it did last about 6 months but then spat it out. To be fair though it was like a 3mm hole rather than just a hairline crack

 

[IcemanUK]

Rear beam sorted

Managed to win a trackday for Rockingham at the weekend but obviously my car wasn't going to be ready and with me working everyday until Sunday it was looking very unlikely. While at Cadwell Ian had offered to bring my gearbox back up from Agency on his way up North. Really kindly he collected it yesterday from Agency and brought it up today! Owe Ian big time thank you very much mate It's amazing how many kind people I have met on this forum and peoples generosity never ceases to amaze me!

Got home with the box and set about getting it fitted and in the car. Had a quick once over the box, Agency had given it a really good clean so nice and easy to look around and check it. Then with my typical luck I found a hairline crack in the paint, I scraped the paint away and sure enough it went through the casing into a wet part of the box. Got my finger through where the passenger side driveshaft goes and I can feel the crack on the inside and also could push oil through the crack so its definitely f**ked. Proper goosed and fed up now

Mate you're having about as much luck as I am with the Audi I feel your pain..

 

[EVOgone]

Rear beam sorted

What have you done? has it changed the handling ?

 

[Tony Hunter]

He can't drive, no gearbox.

 

[Toastfrenzy]

That's a bummer James, though good you found the crack before putting all back together. Not much help but I may be taking mine down over the next 10 days or so, so could take and bring back, if you can get a casing and box to me or I could pick up on way (some place on way) down and drop off.


Thanks again for the spanner help at Cadwell.

 

[Hoofy]

Which part of the casing is it?? We've got a couple of old boxes, one of which is in bits...

 

[BIGASH]

Thanks everyone and also thanks to everyone who has offered me gearboxes, unfortunately it turns out I have to get a 182 jc5 130 box as the casings are different as they run different bearings If anyone knows of a decent 182 casing or cheap gearbox please let me know. I have asked around today and half the people I ask said no to welding the crack in situ and the others said yes so I have taken the risk and had it welded up.

This means the gearbox and engine are now back in the car and I just need to fit the Rad, do the fluids and then put the rest of the car back together after the off. Fingers crossed it'll all be okay

A picture of it half way through putting it back together

What have you done? has it changed the handling ?

I have machined and tapped the casing and then retained the bearings using a machined (to a point bolt) difficult to explain but basically just to eliminate any risk of movement.

Don't know yet but apart from being spat off I never really felt anything wrong so im probably the wrong person to say. I don't know if Freds driving it on Sunday so i'm sure he could give his opinion

That's a bummer James, though good you found the crack before putting all back together. Not much help but I may be taking mine down over the next 10 days or so, so could take and bring back, if you can get a casing and box to me or I could pick up on way (some place on way) down and drop off.


Thanks again for the spanner help at Cadwell.

Thanks for the offer really appreciate it As above im hopefully sorted now!

Anytime

Which part of the casing is it?? We've got a couple of old boxes, one of which is in bits...

It was near the top above where the crownwheel is

 

[Dan@SJM]

You'll be fine welding it IMO. I have also used quiksteel, but on Vikki's sump after she twatted it somehow. Been there for 2k+ now and not a drop.

 

[frenchthing]

Should be ok welding ive done plenty of castings over the years.. drill a tiny hole at the end of each crack, grind it out, clean her up and burn it in... she'll be reeet

 

[EVOgone]

I have machined and tapped the casing and then retained the bearings using a machined (to a point bolt) difficult to explain but basically just to eliminate any risk of movement.

So you have like a grub screw clamping the bearing in place, would it not domage the bearing? Could you not just use bearing lock.

 

[frenchthing]

Point loading a bearing race is a bit iffy... should be ok if you dont go too tight..

 

[Ed.innit]

Yea bearing races shatter pretty easy, saying that unless you crank the grub screw silly tight it shouldnt do any damage...
Splash of green loctite on there would have held it tighhhttt as foook.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Some photos of you at Mallory up mate

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...nch-Trophy-Mallory-Park&p=9805316#post9805316

 

[BIGASH]

So you have like a grub screw clamping the bearing in place, would it not domage the bearing? Could you not just use bearing lock.

Yes although it is a bolt and I wouldn't say clamping more like locating and its only there as a secondary fail safe to Nick's suggestion of bearing lock which I have also used

It only has a very slight indent in the bearing casing nothing to cause damage or weaken it.

Some photos of you at Mallory up mate

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...nch-Trophy-Mallory-Park&p=9805316#post9805316

Thanks mate some great photos as always

 

[EVOgone]

Will be good to see if this has changed the handling and confirm the moving bearing was the cause.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yea bearing races shatter pretty easy, saying that unless you crank the grub screw silly tight it shouldnt do any damage...
Splash of green loctite on there would have held it tighhhttt as foook.

Even if the worse happened and the outer race shattered into 20 pieces, I suppose it still cant actually go anywhere as such anyway as the pieces couldnt move individually anyway?

 

[BIGASH]

Will be good to see if this has changed the handling and confirm the moving bearing was the cause.

Honestly Steve I don't think i'll notice especially seen as how I'm making some major changes to the suspension hardware and setup before the next time the car is used so wouldn't be a fair comparison.

I'm certainly hoping the play doesn't come back though! If you don't have any play I can't see it being your issue

 

[BIGASH]

Really need to pull my finger out and finish the car off! Very little still to do but finding it difficult spending everyday working with other peoples car to then find the motivation to do my own lol! I'll go and send off my Oulton entry form now for FT so that should provide a bit of motivation to do something on it soon