Ph1 172 & Clio DCi
I rev mine too 7800!
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Congrats to DanPl6 on cracking 200bhp (rs2 + 197 cams)
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I rev mine too 7800!
So you're saying that the RS2 is bad because it gives torque and power increases at the top end?
Yeah, I hate having extra power in an extended power band. :banghead:
Ph1 172 & Clio DCi
Wow! What cams are you running??
Some turbo cars I've helped map have picked up 20bhp from adding 1degree on the dyno.
yeecup
ClioSport Club Member
mk8Fiesta ST,172 cup
if 4lb of torque makes you happy good for you, rofl. just dont get why so many people jizz in their pants over it, its a poor mans throttle bodies, why bother? either cam it or itb it, better still dont bother, sell it, buy a faster car in the first place.
I've had faster cars. Keep coming back to clio's as they're more fun. I don't want ITB's as I want to keep cruise control. I don't want to buy cams as its difficult to buy 438's second hand, and you buy new and you'll loose £200ish just on the cams. I bought the rs2 as its depreciation proof. Mind you I'd expect you to have cared more about that coming from north of the border 
Going longer on the trumpets will give it more torque, going bigger on the plenum will potentially give it a higher amount of top end power.
If you could get enough length on there, you would get the same torque that you do with throttle bodies, the airflow doesnt actually care how many or where the throttle plates are once they are opened, the problem is though the very finite amount of space available at the front of a clio.
Ph1 172 & Clio DCi
You are either an idiot or on the wind up if you STILL fail to see the plus points over the standard inlet after so many people on here have taken the time to explain it for you in such clear detail.
330i. E30 Touring.
Lol. Patience of a saint tbh.
He hasn't posted for a while as he couldn't see through the tears iirc
If you look at J's before and after graph, you will see that at the top of the rev range he has actually gained 25lbft of torque, so im not sure where you are getting your 4lbft figure from as the peak gains?
I assume you are getting it from nowhere at all and talking just yet more utter nonsense?
I think the most appealing thing about it to most people is that it is one of VERY few mods that you can do to a clio that gives you nothing but gains.
The difference before and after fitting the RS2 for J's car for example:
Gains:
Torque increase at low rpm
Torque increase at high rpm
Useable torque spread hugely increased
Better looking bay
Loss of weight
Uneffected:
Cruise control
Airconditioning
Fuel Economy
Losses:
None
Short term cost:
High
Long term cost:
Low
Thats about as black and white as it can possibly be, and yet I am very confident you STILL wont understand it!
If you do the same list for throttle bodies, then the gains are much higher in that you pick up a large amount of midrange torque as well not just the top end, but the losses are also much higher as you lose cruise control, you lose aircon, and they are more expensive.
Some people want to transform their car into the perfect trackday clio, and for those people I would totally agree that cams and bodies are the way to go (or a turbo), Ive even said that to Kelv earlier in this thread when he said he was so impressed at Dan's results he was tempted with an RS2 for his trackday car for example.
However some of us actually dont want to make our car specifically a trackday car, we want to keep the epic all round nature of the car, and just improve it a bit for the occasional trackday, and for that sort of use while also making it drive nicer on the road, the RS2 is absolutely ideal.
Im not aware with anyone having fitted 4 lambda sensors to the car to test the mixture after fitting an RS2, however they were computer modelled for flow before hand, and I can tell you from personal experience on other engines with similar inlets and mutliple EGT probes that it will be close to perfect, the other proof of that of course is the power they make, if it was rich on one cylinder and lean on another, neither would make as good peak power as the centre two and as such there is no way you would be hitting the sort of figures that people are.
It will depend on what point in the rev range you are assessing but thats exactly what Tom took into account originally when designing it, if you wanted to really focus on the top end power though I am convinced the plenum would be better if enlarged, plus this would give you room for longer trumpets under it as well, as I mentioned about 10 pages ago, but TBH at that point, you are going to lose one of the benefits of the standard RS2 in terms of allowing you to keep the aircon and allowing it to be simple to fit and remove for the average owner, so I can see why Tom decided to compromise on that in order to make it what he considers (and I think he is correct) the ideal all round package.
Its fundamentally a compromise between useability, ease of fitment, and performance, if you want uncompromised and focussed purely for performance then you may as well just go bodies really as they are readily available rather than spend a fortune on one off carbon plenums etc.
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
Trying to pick the bones out of this thread. LoL
We are running 438s and wosner 12.8cr pistons. The high comp comes from the head. It was previously to us skimmed alot. Fred needed a bigger idler pully to take the slack out of the cambelt! Currently making 195@7k at max torque is 162@6k. Will post graph in a bit
Ph1 172 & Clio DCi
When he missed the point so badly and thought he was being threatened by Chip, I literally could not breathe for laughing so hard! It took me half an hour of recovering before I could explain to others in the workshop what was so funny! I literally had tears running down my face!
Was without a doubt the funniest thing I've read in ages!!
Ph1 172 & Clio DCi
Have you thought about using a Megane R26 head gasket to tame it back down a bit? Failing that I can get gaskets made to a spec'd thickness.
Fantastic results mate, bet that is lovely to drive in the midrange and gives a good punch coming out of the corners, and once you fit the ITBs you will correct that problem you have at the moment (and which 438s on the standard inlet always suffer from) of the torque diving off massively at the top end of the rev range, so once you get to that point, you have the ideal setup for performance use
If you come along to the bedford trackday im sure someone there with bodies will take you out for a spin, but believe me when I say you will LOVE the difference bodies make on your car now, the 438 and standard inlet combination is already showing you what those cams can do in the midrnage, but its utterly dire at the top end, and once you get the bodies on there you will not lose any of the midrange you have now (should gain a little in fact) and you will gain a HUGE amount at the top end, where you are at 125lbft at the moment at 7500rpm, you should be up at 140-145lbft after fitting the bodies, so instead of dropping 40lbft (ie 25%) in the space of less than 2Krpm you will only now drop about 20lbft, which will make it feel MUCH stronger at the top end.
Same as standard, if not slightly better. I see 50+MPG on a daily basis and over 400 miles to a tank of fuel.
All this chat is going to make people want an RS2. Even though there is actually quite a lot of demand for them, seen threads about it on ford and vauxhall forums people saying they want one. I even would like one but I'd use the £2k on better things. Maybe James should start bringing them back? Plus, he must be making a lot of profit on them, I had a quick gander at one when I was up at stone , and when I met you chip, they must cost very low to produce. Can't understand why he stopped. ;(
With standard cams and an RS2, we were getting 40-45mpg on the display on a typical long journey, which is exactly the same as we were getting on the standard inlet, with the 197 cams as well its dropped slightly.
Best run I had out of it where I was driving at mainly 60mph and being very aware of driving economically, we saw over 50mpg on the dash with the RS2, havent done a comparable run in a standard car but I would imagine it could do the same.
I believe that our dash reading (lke most other cliosports I have compared between the trip computer and the pumps) is about 7-8% high, so knock a few mpg off all of those for the real world figures.
From what Chip was saying to me, They're not THAT cheap to produce. Manifold etc was £300 iirc, plus the carbon plenum, plus the carbon trumpets, plus the anodising, plus all the hard ware, plus the silicone, plus filter, plus his labour to build it up.
You are completely mistaken mate about costing very little to product, because they are high quality components bought in small numbers they are actually expensive to produce, things like the jenvey base manifold for example are into the hundred just for that on its own, likewise the plenum cover itself no doubt, then you have the 4 carbon trumpets, all the comonents like the ally spreader plates etc, I bet that the production cost is at lest 60-70% of the resale cost even before you factor in that they take quite a lot of labour to make (especially including having to go and fetch or get posted so many little bits and pieces from mutliple suppliers etc).
If you were making 1000 of them at once Im sure you could get the cost to half of what it is.
330i. E30 Touring.
I'm aware of the figures involved, and it's priced a lot lower than I would have wanted to do it if it was me building them..
Certainly wont be retiring to sun himself in the Costa del Sol off a group buy, that's for sure.
Yes of course, home making something based on copying someone else's hard work is always going to be cheaper mate, although only if your time has no value of course, lol
I'll get some pics of my home made attempt at an RS2 style inlet for a williams engine when i am in the garage later, although IIRC there are some on my project thread already anyway. I used a pulsar plenum cover and a secondhand throttle body manifold as I happened to have both kicking around anyway, it works really well and gives mea similarly wide spread of torque. Even if you bought the bits to do it im sure you could do it for half what an RS2 costs (if like me you have a friend who fabricates motorsport parts and will TIG weld for free) and see most of the benefits, but you would of course end up losing the aircon as you wont find anything secondhand already available in exactly the right shape.
Jenvey also do the parts to allow you assemble similar but that would be as costly as an RS2, not as lightly, wouldnt directly work with the clio TB and compromised on the aircon.
IIRC its more like 1100 that he sells them for, the figure that you see of 1700 thrown about is a typical cost including fitting and mapping and it actually takes hours to make one not the 10 minutes you would think as some of the parts require minor hand finishing, even drilling the carbon plenum is a lot harder than you would think its VERY good quality carbon.
He's not making anymore money by making and fitting an RS2 than he would be by doing 2 cambelts in the same amount of time and thats a LOT less aggro to arrange, so I can see why he isnt too fussed about keeping doing more TBH.
Lol, not on mine. The lacquer bobbled with the heat and made a right mess of itself.
Tom stopped answering phonecalls / texts / emails and never followed through on his promise to sort it. Oh well, it still functions as it should.
Yeah I know there were some problems with the laquer on some of the early units, I was referring to the quality of the carbon itself though as its that which makes it hards to work with as its so strong the laquer doesnt effect that one way or the other.
Even on our one which is a later one the laquer isnt perfect in a couple of places, but I believe James has now changed the process and its a lot better, he did offer me an exchange but its such a tiny defect you really have to look to notice it so it wasnt worth worrying about.
Ph1 172 & Clio DCi
I know one customer of mine just keyed the old lacquer back and re did it with a rattle can. It's come out really nice.
Trouble is, thats another reason why I can see why it is such a ballache for James, if he starts making demands on the people making the carbon that it is utterly perfectly totally without even minor imperfections then due to the way that small volume carbon is made, that means some will need to be discarded and that will then put the cost up even more and its already a fairly dear product.
This is exactly the reason why I personally wouldnt want to buy the rights to this sort of thing and make them to sell! lol
I did/do. TOm fooked off though.
Aucky, TBH mate although I can understand if you are upset with Tom that you bought an RS2 from him and its got some marks on the laquer, I dont really see it is relevant particuarly to Dan's thread or anyone now looking to buy one from James, as Tom is nothing to do with the RS2 anymore so any issues you had when he was just arent really anything to do with James or with anyone buying one now.
172 track thingy
Oh absolutely, thats the very reason I didn't bother James with the problem after he branched off.
Just a digression after talking about CF quality. For everyone's information it looks like mine was pretty much a one-off.
Win some, lose some.
How much would it cost you order that one part to fix the problem?
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