Dismantling F4R Bottom end

[Matteh]

oh yes, I'm back with s'more questions :evil:

I've got the engine out and the head off and I want to take the bottom end apart... what's the correct proceedure?

flip upside down, remove flywheel (do I need to note how it came off?), unbolt sump, unbolt oily bits inside, remove pistons through the top?

 

[Fred@BTM]

^yeah sounds about right

i would go for, remove engine and place it in a skip

 

[Matteh]

You have no faith in my engine Fred, makes me :dapprove:

 

[BenR]

Dismantling.......= rip apart.

Assembling = a guide i cannot be arsed to write! lol

 

[Matteh]

yup, i'll be asking that later (or are the instructions on dialogys?)

what E bit do I need to remove the sump bolts?

 

[SkidMarx]

E7 mate iirc... 1/4 drive too, 3/8 too fat to reach down the holes

 

[Matteh]

cheers

 

[matty w]

you are probably better off getting another lump,hasnt this engine already been rebuilt?you'll probably find the cranks screwed your better off getting another crank if you are going to rebuild that engine

 

[ditz]

yeah its quite involved, i've got one in bits atm but i've just started thinking theres really no point going through the motions of rebuilding it unless going overbore, high comp etc etc etc

if not doing thats you can get a complete bottom end for a ton bearings/machine work will cost you alot more than that and if youve never done it before you have no real way of gaurenteeing you are setting bearing clearences etc correct

 

[SkidMarx]

Got a decent bottom end for sale!! Dunno where east sussex is but if you wanna come pick it up its yours for £50! And its not been stripped/ damaged either, its sat in my shed head still on etc

 

[Matteh]

I'm going to persevere with it... rather have one built that I know what has been done... I'll get someone who knows what they're doing to do the tolerances etc...

for references, its an E8 bit that gets the bolts out... and the bolts are stupid! think I'm going to replace them all with 10mm head ones...

 

[SkidMarx]

E8 sorry...was close. You sure 10mm head bolts will fit down the holes for the sump at the gearbox end??

 

[ditz]

you'd be better of with 4 poss even 6mm allen key caphead bolts

 

[sideways danny]

you'd be better of with 4 poss even 6mm allen key caphead bolts

m6 cap head with a 5mm allen key

 

[Matteh]

I'm fairly sure 10mm will fit, i'll try a few options (got a great nut n bolt shop!)


got the pistons out, couldnt get the crank out as the 2 E14 bolts that hold the crank down on the flywheel end are in a hole thats too narrow for my E14 bit :|...

think I found the problem though... cylinder number 2.... has no shell bearings!!

 

[sideways danny]

I'm fairly sure 10mm will fit, i'll try a few options (got a great nut n bolt shop!)


got the pistons out, couldnt get the crank out as the 2 E14 bolts that hold the crank down on the flywheel end are in a hole thats too narrow for my E14 bit :|...

think I found the problem though... cylinder number 2.... has no shell bearings!!

WHAT!!!!!!

 

[Matteh]

had a good thorough look incase I dropped them or something... but nope, no conrod or cap bearing in #2! the others are all there and look fine (but what do I know )

 

[sideways danny]

you sure it's not spun the bearing and the shells are welded to the journal?

 

[Matteh]

reasonably, i did compare the thickness of it to the others to see if that was the case, but it didn't look any different - but im not 100% on that so i'll have to check tomorrow

 

[Fred@BTM]

post some pics then!

 

[Matteh]

Tomorrow!

 

[Fred@BTM]

no, go do it now, i'm bored and need something to do!

 

[Matteh]

still want pics?

 

[Fred@BTM]

yes!

 

[Matteh]

ok, bear with me lol

 

[Matteh]

#1 conrod

#2 conrod

#1 crank

#2

my mistake, the bearing is on there, it's clearly just spun

#2 shell bearings

#2 crank

apologies for rubbish pics, its 2am and quite dark

 

[Fred@BTM]

good man! how long ago was it rebuilt?

 

[Matteh]

about 5 miles ago (taking into account the idling on my drive) or maybe 2 months?

 

[Fred@BTM]

lol, maybe they used this?
http://www.haynes.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=13109&langId=-1

 

[Matteh]

:S

Dan clearly has no clue what he's doing

but it doesnt look impossible to send the crank off to someone reputable and rebuild it up... how hard can it be

is there a workshop manual for rebuilding the BE? torque settings etc... - can only find one for inserting new shell bearings

 

[mini-valver]

That journal is tatored, lol. At lest you're learning stuff eh

 

[Matteh]

took it all apart this morning... here are some pics

what are these removable things? :? (on #2)

from the pulley end going to the flywheel end:

fun!

 

[sideways danny]

I'm not imagining it am I? One of the thrust bearings is in the wrong way round

 

[mini-valver]

The crank is shagged fella. If you're adament about rebuilding this engine you'll need the crank ground and oversize shells. Contact BenR to see where you can get them!

 

[Matteh]

it might be, the fell off and i placed them back in for the purpose of the picture

 

[Mark One]

makes for an interesting read this. Your crank has seen better days mate. good luck

 

[Matteh]

crank is going to be sent off to be ground (properly this time) with new bearings etc...

I figure its the best way, as once its all back together, I'll know exactly what the engine is like, rather than getting another one and risking it

 

[Fred@BTM]

get another one mate, seriously

 

[matty w]

as said mate your better off getting a mint crank its already been done once,the chances are it'll f*ck up again,and there thrust washers which reduce side to side play in the crank

 

[Matteh]

that's if it has actually been done... I don't think it has.

what would be the problem if its properly ground to within tolerances and rebuilt up? surely it would be no worse than a standard one and I'd also know the condition of the engine, rather than risk getting another