E36 3.0 ITB Race Build

[f0xy]

Cheers for the comments everyone. Ive been having a few issues with the mini-usb power cable moving slightly with vibration/acceleration/deceleration, even though the rPi is securely mounted in the glovebox. This causes the whole thing to power down mid-logging, which is a pain. Need to find an alternative way of powering it really.

Few more logs. They are all WOT 2nd, 3rd, 4th gear pulls. Interesting to see how the VANOS works once the engine is under full load. Airflow to the airbox seems OK with how much the manifold intake temperature drops when speed is increased in the last graph.

2nd > 3rd > 4th Gear Pull - Camshaft Angle (Degrees), RPM, Throttle Position (%), AFR

2nd > 3rd > 4th Gear Pull - Speed, RPM, Throttle Position (%), AFR, Ignition Advance (Degrees) and Injector Duration (m/s)

2nd > 3rd > 4th Gear Pull - Speed, RPM, Throttle Position (%), AFR, Ignition Advance (Degrees) and Injector Duration (m/s)

2nd > 3rd > 4th Gear Pull - Speed, RPM, Throttle Position (%), AFR, Coolant Temperature (C), Intake Temperature (C)

 

[f0xy]

Before Oulton Park on Friday I had a few other jobs to sort on the car, tidying up wiring, sorting dashboard trim out and lots of other little things. The only main job was to fit some new front brake pads, the CL5+'s still had some life left, but had worn oddly and I was getting bored of the clattering they tend to have - so il keep those as a spare. I ended up going for DS3000s, used them in the past and decided to try them again..

Once they were fitted and bedded in I changed the oil and filter. Also made a small mount in the parcel shelf area to put one of the cheap 'Mobius' dash cams for a rear view camera and wired it up to an ignition live - don't have to think about turning it on and off all day like a GoPro then. I also switched the data logger from a Raspberry Pi B, to a B+ with additional USB ports. Changed a few things around and set up the logging to a USB stick rather than the SD card itself, then changed a few bits around and tested everything was working OK. I also got a proper 12V > 5V converter, which can supply 3A, and hard wired it in for the RPi, rather than messing about with cigarette socket USB chargers etc.

For those previously asking what the new exhaust looks like from the back here is a picture - 3" downward angle-ish..

It was noise tested at 98db (static) which was lower than I expected it to be, but good to know for the future.

Friday came around and the forecast had been getting worse all week, which kind of put a downer on the day as I only had my worn RS-R's and some Uniroyal Rainsports on my other set of wheels. The forecast was originally for it to stop around lunchtime, but it never happened and rained right up until 4pm when an E36 went into the wall at Lodge and they called it a day. There were a number of smashes (Clio, 2 x E36 M3s, Evo) and quite a few red flags but its to be expected on a wet day...

Never really got a good feel for the car or new engine, after originally going out on the RS-Rs, then the RainSports later on, playing with damping settings between stoppages... it was just one of those days. Its obvious there is more torque just looking back at the older videos in corners, but really need a dry day to properly compare. The RainSports have been great on the road in the wet for me in the past, but not so much on a smooth wet track it seems. Anyway, I've put the logged data over the video and joined some 'interesting' bits from the day..



Fortunately had no problems with the car, engine is still in one piece and didn't use any oil. Hopefully get some good use out of it next year :smile:

 

[f0xy]

Couple more pictures that have appeared..

 

[JamesBryan]

Some quick snaps I got while it stopped raining, for 10 minutes lol

 

[f0xy]

Thanks James, don't blame you with the weather!

 

[JamesBryan]

I hope it's not too bad for the 29th when i'm booked on.

 

[f0xy]

Yeah, I would have considered it if it wasn't fully booked... no doubt it'l be sunny now!

 

[JamesBryan]

I know, 80 cars on I think

Hoping for a bit of a dry day as i've only got AD08R's on, not too sure what they're like in the wet.

 

[f0xy]

With some miles on the new engine I wanted to put it on the rolling road @ EFI-Parts to see how it compared to the old 200k 2.8, and my previous completely stock E36 328i.

My first (Blue) E36, that was completely stock engine wise (M52B28), on 160k, made 203hp / 215lbft. The last time I went to EFI, I ran the current (Black) E36 with the old oil burning 200k mile M52B28 engine, and it made 216hp / 205lbft. If it wasn't blowing oil by the rings and on so many miles I may have got a few horsepower more, or some more torque, but it was an OK result. The specification at the time was just an M50 Inlet, nothing else 'performance' related. Its further back in the thread but here is the graph/video again:

The car is now a 3.0L, technically an M50/M52B30, as there are parts shared from all the different engines. The full current engine specification is as follows:

M50 Iron Block, M54B30 Crank, M54B30 Pistons + Rods, M52 Cylinder Head, M54 Inlet Camshaft, M52 Exhaust Camshaft, Refurbished B28/M3 'Pinktop' Injectors, M50 Inlet Manifold, M50 Throttle Body, M20 Lightweight Flywheel, M3 3.2 Exhaust Manifolds and Single 2.5" Exhaust System (No Cat), Stock M52B28 Airbox and MAF, Stock M52B28 'Siemens MS41' ECU with modified calibration file.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXFZ8N0Jgt8

So near enough 250hp / 250lbft at the flywheel, pleased with that :smile: Chris suggested it would probably make a few more HP up top end if some of the fuel was taken out, but in reality its not worth the messing about and its very safe as is. The black traces on the above graph are the previous engine, you can really see the difference in power delivery and how peak power holds on much longer at the top end when compared to before. Just need to get it used now.

 

[Chi]

Brilliant updates, shame about the weather..

 

[Stopherson]

Amazing build. Really wish I knew all of this back when I had my e36

 

[matt_132]

Is there any reason you kept the M52 head over the M50?

 

[f0xy]

M50/M52 are the same part, casting and design. Valve springs differ (M50 has twin springs, M52 has single). The E36 M3 is very similar, just has slightly different machining for different size valves and dual VANOS on the 3.2 :smile:

 

[f0xy]

Engine seems to be getting better with more use, and no real problems as of yet - hopefully it will continue that way. Certainly an interesting drive in this weather, but don't just want to leave it sitting around.

Back out in February and March for a couple of days, nothing needs doing before then though thankfully.

 

[Chi]

Looks brilliant mate, credit to you for persevering

 

[JoeyD]

Yeah, that looks mint. Very menacing/purposeful.

Wish I had the budget for an E36, but I just couldn't realistically afford mine when I had it.

 

[f0xy]

Yeah, theres no chance I could use it daily, even if it had a standard interior. Luckily its just sat around most of the time and its more of a 'toy'.

They are bad on fuel to begin with really, even more-so now with the 3.0L, and the more you use them the more needs doing. With the amount thats been done to it, literally everything (bar the shell and bodywork) has been replaced now, and it should only be consumables from now on, but from the size of the thread and as you know you can see how much work is involved in upkeep if you want it to drive properly.

 

[tomhunt85]

My E46 330i has a drink habit, I feel your pain. Impressive build though, looking forward to more track videos this summer.

 

[f0xy]

Yeah, not sure where it will be heading yet but couple in the next few months will have to do for now..

To be honest if you drive it normally, its not so bad, being <1100kgs-ish. Touch the 'go' pedal though and you can see the fuel gauge moving...

 

[Mehana]

Great build Sir....
You are definitely in to mechanics and electronics, I have a question regarding the ecu mapping, do you make the mapping yourself or someone else? I am tuning my 328i and need to map it right. I have the MPPS tuning tool.
Keep the good work up...

 

[f0xy]

We use the Siemens MS41 Flash Tool to read the BINs from the ECU, and TunerPro to edit the files. Its slow work, having to read, modify and flash, but it gets the job done. One thing I would say is do not try and read/write on the car, do it on the bench. Get a spare ECU connector and connect a few wires, the DME's can then be done away from the car with a stable 12-14v power source

 

[Mehana]

Good info...
I have this car for 10 years now installed M50 manifold and chip tuned it in Germany at company name Wetterauer, but I think the map was not for M50 intake mod. only for stock 328i, I lost allot of mid torque and power. Do you modify the Bin file parameters by yourself? Is TunerPro easy to use.
Also the engine is burning oil and blow off fumes from valve cover its a Niksil block, I am thinking of changing piston rings to recover compression, what do you think?

 

[f0xy]

You will loose a small amount of low down only torque with the M50, but not like you describe. Someone else modified the BIN according to my logs, using a different reference file. Its not that easy to use either

Unfortunately it will be your bores that are causing the smoke, I had the exact same issue (lots of oil out of the crank case breather) with the original engine in this car - so fitting new rings will not solve the problem. The material the bores are made from will have worn and caused the problem, my original engine was on 200,000miles.

 

[Mehana]

The map I am running is for M52 intake and I feel low torque from 2000 to 4000rpm, may be I am running lean because the spark plugs are always clean and light grey in
colour. Can you share the 328i M50 intake Bin file?
I have seen you make nice logging equipment for your car, and where trying to connect with high speed rate to ECU, here are the original interface BMW used for our cars before OBD2 plug, using serial port to computer and its really fast with live data, its the ADS interface, also the only way to connect to certain modules is using ADS, the normal usb thing is limited. here are some links.
http://www.repairdynamics.com/Rv8flyboy_Review.pdf
http://openlabs.co/projects/Tiny-ADS-Interface
http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/f99/bmw-inpa-diagnostics-idiots-guide-getting-started-t85220/

Have you rebored your engine? do you have pictures for your bores after 200,000miles?

 

[msremmert]

I'm deeply impressed at the levels of dedication and time you've put into this project.

 

[Adamm.]

Wow this is awesome, think I had a look in around the time you first got it. Really taken a like to this the E36 lately.. Where's the go to place for a source of info if you don't mind me asking? Kind of like this place with clios but for the E36. Is there a lack of them too as I've had a brief look but not seen much.

This looks something special though, credit to you mate. Will have a better look through at some point as I've just skimmed last 2 pages lol.

 

[f0xy]

The map I am running is for M52 intake and I feel low torque from 2000 to 4000rpm, may be I am running lean because the spark plugs are always clean and light grey in
colour. Can you share the 328i M50 intake Bin file?
I have seen you make nice logging equipment for your car, and where trying to connect with high speed rate to ECU, here are the original interface BMW used for our cars before OBD2 plug, using serial port to computer and its really fast with live data, its the ADS interface, also the only way to connect to certain modules is using ADS, the normal usb thing is limited. here are some links.
http://www.repairdynamics.com/Rv8flyboy_Review.pdf
http://openlabs.co/projects/Tiny-ADS-Interface
http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/f99/bmw-inpa-diagnostics-idiots-guide-getting-started-t85220/

Have you rebored your engine? do you have pictures for your bores after 200,000miles?

You need to get a wideband on it ideally to see if you are actually running lean. I have the original file somewhere, I will have to have a look for you though.
I did a lot of reading about the ADS interface, it would work and is one way of doing it, but you don't need it for DME logging. If you poll the ECU over a pure serial line with the correct string you get the data right back without the need for any additional interface

The engine is standard 84mm bore, which the M50B25/M52B28/M54B30 and many others use. I don't have any pictures of the bores but can get some if you want, the block is in the garage.

Wow this is awesome, think I had a look in around the time you first got it. Really taken a like to this the E36 lately.. Where's the go to place for a source of info if you don't mind me asking? Kind of like this place with clios but for the E36. Is there a lack of them too as I've had a brief look but not seen much.

This looks something special though, credit to you mate. Will have a better look through at some point as I've just skimmed last 2 pages lol.

There isn't one place really, the forums are a bit dead in this country, and a lot of the information is incorrect as I've found from actually doing the stuff. Bimmerforums.com is the best for information, but mainly all US. Its way bigger than here but covers every model in a lot of detail, unfortunately there is nothing like CS in the UK for the E36s! Clean cars are hard to come by yeah, as they can be picked up at low prices most have been driven into the ground without maintenance, or attempted to be drifted and bent. Its just a waiting game and checking the chassis is solid - all the other stuff can be replaced with enough work.

 

[tomhunt85]

You need to get a wideband on it ideally to see if you are actually running lean. I have the original file somewhere, I will have to have a look for you though.
I did a lot of reading about the ADS interface, it would work and is one way of doing it, but you don't need it for DME logging. If you poll the ECU over a pure serial line with the correct string you get the data right back without the need for any additional interface :smile:

The engine is standard 84mm bore, which the M50B25/M52B28/M54B30 and many others use. I don't have any pictures of the bores but can get some if you want, the block is in the garage.



There isn't one place really, the forums are a bit dead in this country, and a lot of the information is incorrect as I've found from actually doing the stuff. Bimmerforums.com is the best for information, but mainly all US. Its way bigger than here but covers every model in a lot of detail, unfortunately there is nothing like CS in the UK for the E36s! Clean cars are hard to come by yeah, as they can be picked up at low prices most have been driven into the ground without maintenance, or attempted to be drifted and bent. Its just a waiting game and checking the chassis is solid - all the other stuff can be replaced with enough work.

I've noticed, since picking up my E46, that the older BMWs are neglected as far as a forum and knowledge base goes. I'd say there's a gap in the market, but I'm not convinced, and think the vast majority of E36-46 are bought by people that prefer the dashboard style or the badge (slightly cynical of me) to that of the Mondeo (and therefore far from enthusiasts). Many are workhorses and family wagons and will never be appreciated for the element of fun that even relatively basic models possess. It does take quite some looking to get the info you need, I've found trawling 3-4 forums will usually throw up a reasonable answer usually.

 

[Mehana]

Yes, the wide band is on its way.
Need to see the internal bores of your M52 Niksil block, the condition, corrosion, hone marks is still there or not? you mentioned it was burning oil have you measured the bores and decided to replace the block? do you remember the diameter?
Thanks

 

[f0xy]

Yes, the wide band is on its way.
Need to see the internal bores of your M52 Niksil block, the condition, corrosion, hone marks is still there or not? you mentioned it was burning oil have you measured the bores and decided to replace the block? do you remember the diameter?
Thanks

The hone marks are still visible yes, but no doubt they are worn right down, the engine made 216hp but low torque and used to blow oil by like mad. The block was replaced with an M50 cast iron variant from an M50B25, which has the same diameter internals etc.


Long overdue an update... I had booked a few days around Christmas when OpenTrack had their offer on, Oulton Park being the first one on the Tuesday just gone. The weekend before I decided to give the car a quick check over - only to realise the N/S rear bearing had lots of play again (exactly the same as March 2014 when I had to replace the bearing and hub). After stripping it apart, it turned out once again the hub was damaged, with wear to the inner half of the bearing face causing a very loose fit..

This was replaced in March 2014 as above, along with a new bearing, and torqued to the required 250NM. Its done two three track days and that's about it, quite odd. Managed to source a rear bearing on Saturday, but could not get a replacement hub until Monday. When leaving the house on Monday morning for work, I noticed the rear window of the E36 was broken/shattered, which was great timing. Luckily managed to get a local firm to source one the same day, and £165 later all was well. After collecting the hub, I fitted it in the evening and swapped the studs over. Built the rear end back up and it was about ready for Tuesday.

The day was very quiet, only 40ish cars booked on and perfect weather conditions - which meant I could finally see what the new engine was like.

In summary, its great - its a completely different experience to a 328, so much more torque and the power delivery is something completely different again. After a quick skim over the data logs the coolant never went over 85/86C, and oil temp never went over 104.5C - most of the time it just sat under 100C. I ran the RSR's all day, which were 5 track days old, and they still have some life left in them - exceptional wear rate and performance for £240/set, when compared to nearly £600/set for R888, which to be honest is a joke.

The only disappointment was yet more issues with Ferodo pads - I have moved from CL RC5+ to the Ferodo DS3000, which was a tough decision after having issues with them on my Clio, but they were the only pad available quickly at the time. For the first 2-3 sessions they were great, really good feel and brilliant stopping power, but throughout the day I started getting more and more vibration through the wheel under braking, until the end of the day when it was at its worst. I had the exact same issue on the Mk1 with DS3000s, and after a bit of a read it seems to be quite a common issue. Either way that needs resolving - considering the discs were new, as were the freshly rebuilt calipers.

Video to come soon!

 

[Mehana]

Nice track day

, upload video with gauges.!!!
I have the same symptoms, blow oil vapor from the valve cover cap, low torque but surprisingly high compression test all 6 cylinders where in the range 180-190psi (12-13bar), is that normal? may be the carbon build up between rings is the reason for high compression, but why low torque if the compression is high. Have you measured your rings gap? did they wear off?
Please send me bin file 24kb for the 328i with M50 manifold if you have time, I also have Alpina B3.2 265hp file if you are interested

 

[JamesBryan]

Interesting that you mentioned about the DS3000's as my brother has similar issues on track in his Megane.

I've got CL RC5's to put in the Clio after having DS2500's

 

[Ph1 Tom]

It'll be pad deposits I reckon. The only time I've managed to avoid it with Ferodo pads is when I've run grooved discs.

The CLs seem better but a few people have issues with them of the pad coming away from the backing plate. That's mainly on the RC6 rather than the 5+ though.

You could try Yellowstuff/Bluestuff or DS1.11.

 

[Addicted]

Fantastic, wish I could even do 10% of this stuff!

 

[f0xy]

Interesting that you mentioned about the DS3000's as my brother has similar issues on track in his Megane.

I've got CL RC5's to put in the Clio after having DS2500's

The RC5's I had in were only really a temporary thing, when I first got the car, but I ended up leaving them. I wanted RC6 again (as per the Mk1 and had zero issues) but no where had stock for weeks and I needed a set for the last wet Oulton so the next choice was DS3000 which were on the shelf. Never again...

It'll be pad deposits I reckon. The only time I've managed to avoid it with Ferodo pads is when I've run grooved discs.

The CLs seem better but a few people have issues with them of the pad coming away from the backing plate. That's mainly on the RC6 rather than the 5+ though.

You could try Yellowstuff/Bluestuff or DS1.11.

Yellowstuff were not all that when I first ran them in this car, I was going to move upto Bluestuff but went to RC5+ as a temporary measure. Id have RC6 all day long after using them for years in the Clio but as above nowhere had stock for the M3 calipers. The vibration got that bad towards the end of the day the dashboard was all over the place - as soon as you're off the pedal its all back to normal. Terrible for the price of them really. I'm going to swap discs to a spare set and put the RC5+s back in to see if the vibration goes, and hopefully pin down what's actually causing it

 

[f0xy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4LOM_FEsPU

 

[Martin.]

That thing certainly shifts! And you can pedal very well.

It sounds awesome too!! Great work.

 

[f0xy]

That thing certainly shifts! And you can pedal very well.

It sounds awesome too!! Great work.

Cheers. Bit of an external video clip thanks to @JoeyD too..

 

[JackJack]

Sounds epic

 

[Adamm.]

Loved those videos, does sound nice and goes well. Brilliant motor this.