Cheers - somehow only 98db too, I thought it was much louder from previous cars. Its a bit loud inside once its really warmed up, even with a helmet - earplugs next time I think.
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Cheers - somehow only 98db too, I thought it was much louder from previous cars. Its a bit loud inside once its really warmed up, even with a helmet - earplugs next time I think.
Bloody hell, corner speeds are mental!
How did you fare against that white E46?
How did you fare against that white E46?
Came across it a few times, was either going slow and let me past or went off on the straights then went really slow through the corners, not sure what was happening!
I was supposed to be at Cadwell Park last week, but in the end someone else used my spot. After endless messing about with the map on the stock ECU there are just too many variables it looks at and compensates for, once the adaptions get stored the AFR wanders richer and you are back to square one again. So with it not running 'properly', I opted out. For that reason, I'm now in the middle of fitting...
I'm keeping the engine loom 'as is', considering there are no problems and I don't want to mess around souring new pins for every connector. I've gutted a spare ECU for its connector, and I'm in the process of creating a short adaptor loom, which will result with the Adaptronic inside the car. I won't be running the standard lambdas, nor standard MAF. Going to be using MAP with the Adaptronic, alongside the wideband output. Next outing is Anglesey in April, so hopefully fitted and mapped for then :smile:
I'm keeping the engine loom 'as is', considering there are no problems and I don't want to mess around souring new pins for every connector. I've gutted a spare ECU for its connector, and I'm in the process of creating a short adaptor loom, which will result with the Adaptronic inside the car. I won't be running the standard lambdas, nor standard MAF. Going to be using MAP with the Adaptronic, alongside the wideband output. Next outing is Anglesey in April, so hopefully fitted and mapped for then :smile:
Had Anglesey booked for the 19th April, but ran out of time to get the standalone mapped - so I was back on my stock ECU for it.
Before the day I replaced the front discs after the DS3000s completely ruined them after Oulton, and fitted a new set of CL5s instead. When changing the pads I saw the outer dust cover on the N/S caliper was torn, so I replaced the piston and seals as they are cheap. Also fitted a new set of Yellowstuffs in the rears. Bled the system through with fresh fluid and it was ready to go.
The weather was perfect, clear sun all day - although had a few issues with the car. First being gearbox started to breathe oil out of the top breather cap, which seemed to get less throughout the day - it has never done this before so I'm not sure what it is yet. Upon arriving back, when moving in reverse there were some very odd noises coming from the box, so I'm assuming its related also. Unfortunately you can't get to the breather with the engine/box in the car. Great. The N/S driveshaft has gone noisy under load, but its not really an issue as I have a couple of spares.
Apart from that everything else went well - just need to put the standalone back on and get it mapped now.
Before the day I replaced the front discs after the DS3000s completely ruined them after Oulton, and fitted a new set of CL5s instead. When changing the pads I saw the outer dust cover on the N/S caliper was torn, so I replaced the piston and seals as they are cheap. Also fitted a new set of Yellowstuffs in the rears. Bled the system through with fresh fluid and it was ready to go.
The weather was perfect, clear sun all day - although had a few issues with the car. First being gearbox started to breathe oil out of the top breather cap, which seemed to get less throughout the day - it has never done this before so I'm not sure what it is yet. Upon arriving back, when moving in reverse there were some very odd noises coming from the box, so I'm assuming its related also. Unfortunately you can't get to the breather with the engine/box in the car. Great. The N/S driveshaft has gone noisy under load, but its not really an issue as I have a couple of spares.
Apart from that everything else went well - just need to put the standalone back on and get it mapped now.
That last photo with the sea in it is fantastic.
After Anglesey, a few people had mentioned seeing a puff of smoke out of the back between gear changes, and the back of the car actually had oil vapor over it towards the end of the day. The crankcase breather was linked back to the inlet elbow, BEFORE the throttle body, like a Clio for example. Although, when lifting off at high RPM, sometimes a small amount of blowby would run down this pipe and back into the inlet, get burnt and come out the back as smoke.
Ideally I needed to fit an oil separator, which can separate the oil vapor, put liquid back to the sump and air back into the inlet AFTER the throttle body instead. I picked up an E36/E39 item, only £25 new, it then needed fitting to the M50 inlet manifold (which does not usually have one) in a spare spot, and positioned in such a way so it could drain to the sump.
First challenge was how to drill a ~25mm hole in the inlet...
Then fit a BMW O-ring for the separator to fit into, and push fit the unit into place..
Made up a small bracket to support it, even though it probably didn't need it being such a tight fit..
This was then fitted to the car - the crankcase breather connects to the large fitting on the side, and the small drain runs back to the sump. After running the car and driving hard, there is no longer any smoke, and the car seems to run cleaner/smoother mid range. Time will tell if this has solved the issue, but it looks like it might. Off for final mapping on standalone in a couple of weeks
Ideally I needed to fit an oil separator, which can separate the oil vapor, put liquid back to the sump and air back into the inlet AFTER the throttle body instead. I picked up an E36/E39 item, only £25 new, it then needed fitting to the M50 inlet manifold (which does not usually have one) in a spare spot, and positioned in such a way so it could drain to the sump.
First challenge was how to drill a ~25mm hole in the inlet...
Then fit a BMW O-ring for the separator to fit into, and push fit the unit into place..
Made up a small bracket to support it, even though it probably didn't need it being such a tight fit..
This was then fitted to the car - the crankcase breather connects to the large fitting on the side, and the small drain runs back to the sump. After running the car and driving hard, there is no longer any smoke, and the car seems to run cleaner/smoother mid range. Time will tell if this has solved the issue, but it looks like it might. Off for final mapping on standalone in a couple of weeks
So after getting the standalone fitted and the car running, I arranged to have Chris @ EFI to map it.
Changes include no longer running the standard MAF sensor or lambdas. Its now running MAP, with the wideband feeding the ECU. Still on the E46 coilpacks and 250cc injectors. With standalone we could pick when the VANOS came on/off to get the best power/performance from the motor. Initially the VANOS was left engaged in its standard location, 1200rpm > 4500rpm:
There was a dip in power and torque at exactly 4500rpm, as you can see above. Then we kept the VANOS on for an extra 500rpm or so, which removed that dip and gave us the final numbers after a bit more fine tuning:
The car drives so much differently now, throttle response is instant and the mid range difference is night and day - it was definitely the right decision moving away from standard management and getting it mapped properly.
Changes include no longer running the standard MAF sensor or lambdas. Its now running MAP, with the wideband feeding the ECU. Still on the E46 coilpacks and 250cc injectors. With standalone we could pick when the VANOS came on/off to get the best power/performance from the motor. Initially the VANOS was left engaged in its standard location, 1200rpm > 4500rpm:
There was a dip in power and torque at exactly 4500rpm, as you can see above. Then we kept the VANOS on for an extra 500rpm or so, which removed that dip and gave us the final numbers after a bit more fine tuning:
The car drives so much differently now, throttle response is instant and the mid range difference is night and day - it was definitely the right decision moving away from standard management and getting it mapped properly.
Nice!
Very nice torque curve too, nearly flat!
Very nice torque curve too, nearly flat!
The engine/management setup is still going well and with a few tweaks the cold start and warm idle are now great too. I've not had much time recently with work and being at Le Mans again, but with Cadwell booked I thought it might be time to get some bits sorted...
First was another pair of 595 RSR's to replace some worn out ones from Anglesey earlier in the year - at the same time I've had both sets of wheels powder coated again as they were looking a bit tatty from never being cleaned and thrown about in the garage.
Next was the N/S rear bearing, AGAIN. This developed a slight bit of play at Anglesey, it was still torqued up to spec too. I pulled it all apart and the play in the bearing had caused the stub axle to wear on the inside once again. After having a think the only thing that has not been replaced is the driveshaft, which does come into direct contact with the bearing and stub axle on the inside, so maybe this is the actual cause?
I got a new stub axle (again) and a new bearing (again) and got them onto the car. I then decided to strip both driveshafts down, and rebuild them with some new CV boots and Redline CV2 grease. I actually have a total of 4 driveshafts, so I thought it would be an idea to strip them all down and make a good pair from them...
But in the end, I only really had a single good condition outer CV (driveshaft nut thread damaged/flat on the others). Unfortunately you can't really buy the outer CV's separately - I didn't want another set of second hand shafts either. After much consideration I sent the CV boots back and bought two new, decent brand driveshafts..
Which were then fitted, torqued up, locking tabs pinched and marked up to see if there is any movement in the future. If there are still issues with this N/S setup then I'm not sure what else it could be - it has the most load going through it, but I've never heard of anyone else having the issue. The O/S is still on its original bearing (2 years) without any issues.
Lastly, with the amount of repair work this shell has had to its sills (inner and outer) I did not want to commit to a weld-in cage, as you would never see any value back from it. I had been keeping an eye out for a second hand bolt-in type, either Safety Devices or Wiechers Sport for quite some time...
It was an interesting 400 mile round trip to say the least.... Wiechers Sport 6 point, with single door bars and harness bar. With the door bars being bolt-in, I wanted to modify them into a X, but obviously keep them in such a way so they can be removed also. Started by picking up some OMP fittings, 40mm CDS and various other bits - then spent a few evenings cutting and profiling to get them just right..
The whole cage was then removed and dropped off to be powder coated in a slightly more subtle colour. Whilst thats been away I have welded some oversized 3mm plate to either side of the chassis on all 6 locations, then seam sealed and painted, ready for it to be bolted in.
With less than a week until Cadwell now there are a few other small bits which need sorting too, so more updates soon!
First was another pair of 595 RSR's to replace some worn out ones from Anglesey earlier in the year - at the same time I've had both sets of wheels powder coated again as they were looking a bit tatty from never being cleaned and thrown about in the garage.
Next was the N/S rear bearing, AGAIN. This developed a slight bit of play at Anglesey, it was still torqued up to spec too. I pulled it all apart and the play in the bearing had caused the stub axle to wear on the inside once again. After having a think the only thing that has not been replaced is the driveshaft, which does come into direct contact with the bearing and stub axle on the inside, so maybe this is the actual cause?
I got a new stub axle (again) and a new bearing (again) and got them onto the car. I then decided to strip both driveshafts down, and rebuild them with some new CV boots and Redline CV2 grease. I actually have a total of 4 driveshafts, so I thought it would be an idea to strip them all down and make a good pair from them...
But in the end, I only really had a single good condition outer CV (driveshaft nut thread damaged/flat on the others). Unfortunately you can't really buy the outer CV's separately - I didn't want another set of second hand shafts either. After much consideration I sent the CV boots back and bought two new, decent brand driveshafts..
Which were then fitted, torqued up, locking tabs pinched and marked up to see if there is any movement in the future. If there are still issues with this N/S setup then I'm not sure what else it could be - it has the most load going through it, but I've never heard of anyone else having the issue. The O/S is still on its original bearing (2 years) without any issues.
Lastly, with the amount of repair work this shell has had to its sills (inner and outer) I did not want to commit to a weld-in cage, as you would never see any value back from it. I had been keeping an eye out for a second hand bolt-in type, either Safety Devices or Wiechers Sport for quite some time...
It was an interesting 400 mile round trip to say the least.... Wiechers Sport 6 point, with single door bars and harness bar. With the door bars being bolt-in, I wanted to modify them into a X, but obviously keep them in such a way so they can be removed also. Started by picking up some OMP fittings, 40mm CDS and various other bits - then spent a few evenings cutting and profiling to get them just right..
The whole cage was then removed and dropped off to be powder coated in a slightly more subtle colour. Whilst thats been away I have welded some oversized 3mm plate to either side of the chassis on all 6 locations, then seam sealed and painted, ready for it to be bolted in.
With less than a week until Cadwell now there are a few other small bits which need sorting too, so more updates soon!
Paul.M
ClioSport Club Member
Awesome work as usual Jordan!
Had the cage powder coated black, got it in the car and tidied up various bits. Changed the wheel colour too. Put together a new data logger for the standalone ECU and it was about ready for Cadwell..
The car was brilliant all day without any issues - the LSD is starting to make a bit of noise when its really hot which is something that's going to get attention but everything else was spot on. Engine wise - the standalone has transformed the engine, especially mid-range just where it was needed.
Few jobs to do before the next one.... Spa in October. More soon.
The car was brilliant all day without any issues - the LSD is starting to make a bit of noise when its really hot which is something that's going to get attention but everything else was spot on. Engine wise - the standalone has transformed the engine, especially mid-range just where it was needed.
Few jobs to do before the next one.... Spa in October. More soon.
This picture is epic.
Looks great fun on track Jord 
What do you use to get the speed and rpm video overlay?
What do you use to get the speed and rpm video overlay?
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
RaceRender will do that
With the standalone offering a serial data feed in Modbus format, I could quite easily write a small C program and use a tiny microcontroller instead of the Raspberry Pi like I did with the standard ECU. This just logs every piece of data, over 200 channels, (at a much better rate too) to an SD card.
I then dump the video and that data into RaceRender as above, and render the videos out
I then dump the video and that data into RaceRender as above, and render the videos out
Cub.
ClioSport Moderator
Looks to be going brilliantly, and glad the move to standalone has shown noticeable improvement.
Great car.
Great car.
As mentioned above, LSD rebuild is the next job. Been collecting parts over the past few weeks. My current final drive ratio is from a standard E36 M3 - 3.15:1. Luckily with BMWs, a lot of that era (E28, E30, E32, E34, E36) used the same dimension hardware (ring gear and pinion) inside the differential, which makes a lot of ratios available to 'build' your own.
With my S5D320Z 5 Speed Gearbox, 6500rpm limiter and 205/45/16 wheels, the road speeds are currently:
I am changing to a 3.46 ratio, using the same gearbox, limiter and wheels, which is generally regarded as a better ratio when you don't need top speed. Road speed comparison:
I picked up an open differential from an E34, and stripped it apart for the 3.46 ring gear and pinion..
I've since stripped a couple of my spare differentials apart and had the casings sand blasted, so the new unit will start from a clean case. The LSD unit consists of spacer plates, clutches and gears. Obviously over time the clutches do wear, and my current LSD is on unknown mileage, so it made sense to replace them now, especially since all the bearings and seals are being done.
Unfortunately, BMW no longer stock the specific size of clutch disk for this series of differential, not even on special order. Turns out Porsche items are very similar, so they will have to do
More on the LSD as it progresses..
With my S5D320Z 5 Speed Gearbox, 6500rpm limiter and 205/45/16 wheels, the road speeds are currently:
I am changing to a 3.46 ratio, using the same gearbox, limiter and wheels, which is generally regarded as a better ratio when you don't need top speed. Road speed comparison:
I picked up an open differential from an E34, and stripped it apart for the 3.46 ring gear and pinion..
I've since stripped a couple of my spare differentials apart and had the casings sand blasted, so the new unit will start from a clean case. The LSD unit consists of spacer plates, clutches and gears. Obviously over time the clutches do wear, and my current LSD is on unknown mileage, so it made sense to replace them now, especially since all the bearings and seals are being done.
Unfortunately, BMW no longer stock the specific size of clutch disk for this series of differential, not even on special order. Turns out Porsche items are very similar, so they will have to do
More on the LSD as it progresses..
After removing the M3 differential from the car, I removed the LSD unit from the case. Removed the bearings and ring gear, then the internal assembly.
Cleaned up and checked all the internal LSD components..
The friction discs are well worn (1.93mm down from ±2.1mm when new), I don't know how many owners or miles this diff has covered. The contact plates have also seen a small amount of wear, although they are being replaced anyway..
New friction disc vs old..
I'm running the ±2.5mm Porsche friction discs, so require thinner contact discs to equal out the total stack height. Waiting on these arriving then I can carry on..
Cleaned up and checked all the internal LSD components..
The friction discs are well worn (1.93mm down from ±2.1mm when new), I don't know how many owners or miles this diff has covered. The contact plates have also seen a small amount of wear, although they are being replaced anyway..
New friction disc vs old..
I'm running the ±2.5mm Porsche friction discs, so require thinner contact discs to equal out the total stack height. Waiting on these arriving then I can carry on..
dann2707
ClioSport Club Member
Looks like a handful on track but very fun!
After getting the final internal LSD bits I got on with putting them together. First on was the 3.46 ring gear, with Loctite 271 on the bolts and torqued to 110lb/ft.
The standard 'clutch stack' is made up from a 2.1mm spacer plate, and the 2.0mm friction disk, giving a total of 4.10mm. There are two pairs of these inside. I'm using the Porsche friction discs, which are 2.5mm (2.0mm not available any more), I needed to use a thinner spacer plate to keep the same stack thickness. Back to Porsche and a couple of days later I had some 1.6mm items..
Then combined with the 2.5mm friction disc, it keeps the same original thickness..
The housing was cleaned out then parts fitted in order. First is a 4mm thick spacer plate which sits in the bottom (many people remove this and fit another set of spacer+friction disk for some 'theoretical additional lock', but its not proven as the stack height is still the same). Inside this there is a washer, sprung belleville washer, and a small solid friction disc..
Next is a large belleville washer, then the new 1.6mm spacer..
The first friction disc was then given a bit of LSD oil, pushed onto the gear and onto the housing, then dropped in the right way..
Spider gears and then the upper gear..
The other housing, second friction disc and last 1.6mm spacer on top..
Outer belleville washer..
Then the top housing was stacked with the three smaller elements (spacer, belleville washer and small solid friction disc)..
This was then flipped over and slotted into the housing - here it is pushed down until the plates contact, to give you an idea of how much static tension the internals are under. If you had more plates, thicker spacer discs or taller belleville washers this would sit even taller, meaning the unit has more static 'lock'..
8x new bolts from BMW - Loctite added then torqued to 25lb/ft..
...and thats the LSD unit ready for new bearings and the next steps in the rebuild..
More soon..
The standard 'clutch stack' is made up from a 2.1mm spacer plate, and the 2.0mm friction disk, giving a total of 4.10mm. There are two pairs of these inside. I'm using the Porsche friction discs, which are 2.5mm (2.0mm not available any more), I needed to use a thinner spacer plate to keep the same stack thickness. Back to Porsche and a couple of days later I had some 1.6mm items..
Then combined with the 2.5mm friction disc, it keeps the same original thickness..
The housing was cleaned out then parts fitted in order. First is a 4mm thick spacer plate which sits in the bottom (many people remove this and fit another set of spacer+friction disk for some 'theoretical additional lock', but its not proven as the stack height is still the same). Inside this there is a washer, sprung belleville washer, and a small solid friction disc..
Next is a large belleville washer, then the new 1.6mm spacer..
The first friction disc was then given a bit of LSD oil, pushed onto the gear and onto the housing, then dropped in the right way..
Spider gears and then the upper gear..
The other housing, second friction disc and last 1.6mm spacer on top..
Outer belleville washer..
Then the top housing was stacked with the three smaller elements (spacer, belleville washer and small solid friction disc)..
This was then flipped over and slotted into the housing - here it is pushed down until the plates contact, to give you an idea of how much static tension the internals are under. If you had more plates, thicker spacer discs or taller belleville washers this would sit even taller, meaning the unit has more static 'lock'..
8x new bolts from BMW - Loctite added then torqued to 25lb/ft..
...and thats the LSD unit ready for new bearings and the next steps in the rebuild..
More soon..
So I got a set of bearings, went for a decent brand that most seem to go with...
Cleaned the outer housings and drove the outer races into place..
Pressed the other half of the bearings onto the LSD unit..
Next was to clean up one of the cases and mating faces..
The first step is to set up the correct spacing on the LSD unit/carrier bearings, so the bearing runs with a specified amount of drag. This is achieved by using spacers that vary in thickness. I had to order a larger range from BMW, as its all trial and error to get the correct thickness on both sides and keep the drag tolerance within spec
Dropped the LSD unit into the case, then started out with two shims..
To measure the drag tolerance on the bearings, a torque wrench is used. Although, it has to be one that drops down to very small values - the specification is in in/lb. The range you have to stick within is 11in/lb to 23in/lb. To use the torque wrench, you need to be able to continually spin the carrier on its bearings using the output flange, so I knocked up a small plate with a bolt..
Then used the inch/pound torque wrench to measure the drag..
After trying a few different sized shims on both sides I ended up with 18in/lb, which was good enough for me. My total shim thickness was 3.11mm.
Next was to drive the races for the pinion into the case - the inner race also has a shim under it which can be changed, but I stuck with the one that was fitted to the case the pinion came from..
Pressed the new inner bearing onto the pinion itself..
The BMW diffs use a crush washer design, meaning you torque down the front flange and then gradually keep tightening until you get the correct preload, which is also measured in in/lb. New crush washer and input flange seal..
Outer race pressed into place, crush washer between them both, outer seal fitted then the flange went into the case..
This was then set up with 20in/lb of rolling drag, which falls between the recommended 11-23in/lb tolerance.
With the pinion installed, the LSD carrier could be put back into the case, and backlash checked. Using a dial gauge, the initial reading was 0.01mm, which is too tight for the setup. The BMW tolerance states anywhere between 0.06mm and 0.14mm is acceptable. To gain the additional backlash, the LSD unit has to be moved away from the pinion gear - this is achieved by swapping the side casing shims (as per the above setup). Although, you have to keep the total thickness of both shims used to the same as the original setup, to maintain the correct preload/drag value. In my case, this was 3.10mm. After a few different pairs of shim combinations, I got the backlash to 0.07mm, within tolerance.
The last step was to check the gear pattern between the pinion and crown wheel, on both the drive and coast faces. I used some engineering blue to mark up the gears then spin the diff over numerous times in both directions - the contact patches then show up clean. The coast face of the gear had a clean central contact patch, in the middle of the face.
The drive side had a good sized contact patch in the middle, offset to the inside of the gear but not hanging over the edge, which is good.
If one, or both contact patches were incorrect, I would have had to swap the side shims out again and try to get better pattern - although, you have to then re-check the backlash is within tolerance. If you can't get a good pattern within the backlash range, you need to change the shim under the pinion bearing, to move the pinion gear further in or out.
The final bits were to drive in the new output shaft seals..
Install the locking tab on the pinion nut so it can't move..
Then fit and torque the back cover with some new sealant..
Thats about it, one 3.46 ratio LSD with new clutches ready to go back on the car.
On another note, I wanted to see what sort of temperature changes these units see with certain oils - to do this I needed a sensor in there. The fill/drain plugs on the back cover are M22x1.5. I managed to get hold of an plug in the correct thread, then had it drilled through and tapped to 1/8NPT. I'm going to use it in the fill plug hole once the new oil has gone in. Paired with a temperature sensor (same as used with the aftermarket ECU) I can easily read the temperature off whenever required.
Its not back on the car yet, but hopefully will be soon.
Cleaned the outer housings and drove the outer races into place..
Pressed the other half of the bearings onto the LSD unit..
Next was to clean up one of the cases and mating faces..
The first step is to set up the correct spacing on the LSD unit/carrier bearings, so the bearing runs with a specified amount of drag. This is achieved by using spacers that vary in thickness. I had to order a larger range from BMW, as its all trial and error to get the correct thickness on both sides and keep the drag tolerance within spec
Dropped the LSD unit into the case, then started out with two shims..
To measure the drag tolerance on the bearings, a torque wrench is used. Although, it has to be one that drops down to very small values - the specification is in in/lb. The range you have to stick within is 11in/lb to 23in/lb. To use the torque wrench, you need to be able to continually spin the carrier on its bearings using the output flange, so I knocked up a small plate with a bolt..
Then used the inch/pound torque wrench to measure the drag..
After trying a few different sized shims on both sides I ended up with 18in/lb, which was good enough for me. My total shim thickness was 3.11mm.
Next was to drive the races for the pinion into the case - the inner race also has a shim under it which can be changed, but I stuck with the one that was fitted to the case the pinion came from..
Pressed the new inner bearing onto the pinion itself..
The BMW diffs use a crush washer design, meaning you torque down the front flange and then gradually keep tightening until you get the correct preload, which is also measured in in/lb. New crush washer and input flange seal..
Outer race pressed into place, crush washer between them both, outer seal fitted then the flange went into the case..
This was then set up with 20in/lb of rolling drag, which falls between the recommended 11-23in/lb tolerance.
With the pinion installed, the LSD carrier could be put back into the case, and backlash checked. Using a dial gauge, the initial reading was 0.01mm, which is too tight for the setup. The BMW tolerance states anywhere between 0.06mm and 0.14mm is acceptable. To gain the additional backlash, the LSD unit has to be moved away from the pinion gear - this is achieved by swapping the side casing shims (as per the above setup). Although, you have to keep the total thickness of both shims used to the same as the original setup, to maintain the correct preload/drag value. In my case, this was 3.10mm. After a few different pairs of shim combinations, I got the backlash to 0.07mm, within tolerance.
The last step was to check the gear pattern between the pinion and crown wheel, on both the drive and coast faces. I used some engineering blue to mark up the gears then spin the diff over numerous times in both directions - the contact patches then show up clean. The coast face of the gear had a clean central contact patch, in the middle of the face.
The drive side had a good sized contact patch in the middle, offset to the inside of the gear but not hanging over the edge, which is good.
If one, or both contact patches were incorrect, I would have had to swap the side shims out again and try to get better pattern - although, you have to then re-check the backlash is within tolerance. If you can't get a good pattern within the backlash range, you need to change the shim under the pinion bearing, to move the pinion gear further in or out.
The final bits were to drive in the new output shaft seals..
Install the locking tab on the pinion nut so it can't move..
Then fit and torque the back cover with some new sealant..
Thats about it, one 3.46 ratio LSD with new clutches ready to go back on the car.
On another note, I wanted to see what sort of temperature changes these units see with certain oils - to do this I needed a sensor in there. The fill/drain plugs on the back cover are M22x1.5. I managed to get hold of an plug in the correct thread, then had it drilled through and tapped to 1/8NPT. I'm going to use it in the fill plug hole once the new oil has gone in. Paired with a temperature sensor (same as used with the aftermarket ECU) I can easily read the temperature off whenever required.
Its not back on the car yet, but hopefully will be soon.
Every so often I feel like I have a decent working mechanical knowledge. Then I read this thread.
I don't know really.... but its one way to learn
Got the LSD back on the car today, after filling with oil.
Everything seems great, and the ratios are much better. No noises or leaks as of yet - the LSD operation is much sharper too. Once back, I tested the breakaway torque at around 60lb/ft, which is better than 'stock', and a vast improvement over the 30lb/ft-ish it was before.
More soon.
Got the LSD back on the car today, after filling with oil.
Everything seems great, and the ratios are much better. No noises or leaks as of yet - the LSD operation is much sharper too. Once back, I tested the breakaway torque at around 60lb/ft, which is better than 'stock', and a vast improvement over the 30lb/ft-ish it was before.
More soon.
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Have you still been suffering from wheel bearing issues?
Since replacing the shafts (and bearing), then a new nut, which was locked on and marked up, I did Cadwell only to find play in the N/S again. Worth mentioning the O/S is still on the same bearing from the original build nearly 2 years ago, which has never been an issue. N/S is obviously the more loaded side but anyway.
The nut had not moved, but the bearing did have some noise/play. Always torqued to 250nm as per BMW TIS and its not like these are cheap bearings either
I've been building up some 3.2 Evo rear trailing arms which use a larger, and wider rear bearing, and will be getting swapped onto the car at some point. They also use a larger outer CV and 300nm spec instead of the 250nm. Hopefully this sorts the issue.... no one else seems to have the problem from what I've read, and considering every part other than the trailing arm has been replaced who knows
The nut had not moved, but the bearing did have some noise/play. Always torqued to 250nm as per BMW TIS and its not like these are cheap bearings either
I've been building up some 3.2 Evo rear trailing arms which use a larger, and wider rear bearing, and will be getting swapped onto the car at some point. They also use a larger outer CV and 300nm spec instead of the 250nm. Hopefully this sorts the issue.... no one else seems to have the problem from what I've read, and considering every part other than the trailing arm has been replaced who knows
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Sounds similar to the issue I had with the rears on my cup mate. Swapping to a bigger bearing will hopefully see the issue f**king off for good. If not I'm into custom stub axles and hub/disc assemblies.
ensive:I also followed all the b****cks for tightening them up only to find the issue kept coming back.
Sunglasses_Ron
ClioSport Admin
Been working on this quite a lot recently - not fully completed a lot of the jobs yet but here is a start..
I wanted to change to E36 M3 3.2 rear arms, which use a much larger wheel bearing, to try and resolve the issues previous in this thread. The plan was to keep my subframe (so I stay with medium case sized differential) and use the trailing arms and brakes. I had everything blasted and powder coated in the same colour as before.
First up was 4 new Meyle ball joints in the trailing arms..
Then two new Meyle bearings. I also swapped my Powerflex Black Series trailing arm bushes to the new arms..
Stub axles were then pressed in and my studs swapped over, applied some Loctite 271 and torqued..
I stripped my adjustable camber arms down which were looking a bit well used (been on the car nearly 2 years). The standard rubber bushes were also showing signs of cracking, so they were stripped out.
I managed to find some polybushes for the camber arms from a European supplier, as PowerFlex dont sell anything similar. They needed a bit of trimming to fit (outer diameter) as they are not meant for these exact camber arms - they work fine and fit well now..
Then cleaned up, painted and assembled..
When the subframe was last built, I used a standard Lemforder bush on the upper inner control arm. The same supplier that stocks the above bush also have a polybush for this location, so it made sense to swap it also.
The above set of trailing and control arms were then bolted up to the car with the shock and spring, with new hardware. When the trailing arms were powder coated, the M3 3.2 rear calipers were also stripped and done. I then built them up with new seals and pistons.
Got some CL RC5+ (to match the fronts), with new discs, and put them on the car..
This has taken it from 276x19mm > 312x20mm. More soon.
I wanted to change to E36 M3 3.2 rear arms, which use a much larger wheel bearing, to try and resolve the issues previous in this thread. The plan was to keep my subframe (so I stay with medium case sized differential) and use the trailing arms and brakes. I had everything blasted and powder coated in the same colour as before.
First up was 4 new Meyle ball joints in the trailing arms..
Then two new Meyle bearings. I also swapped my Powerflex Black Series trailing arm bushes to the new arms..
Stub axles were then pressed in and my studs swapped over, applied some Loctite 271 and torqued..
I stripped my adjustable camber arms down which were looking a bit well used (been on the car nearly 2 years). The standard rubber bushes were also showing signs of cracking, so they were stripped out.
I managed to find some polybushes for the camber arms from a European supplier, as PowerFlex dont sell anything similar. They needed a bit of trimming to fit (outer diameter) as they are not meant for these exact camber arms - they work fine and fit well now..
Then cleaned up, painted and assembled..
When the subframe was last built, I used a standard Lemforder bush on the upper inner control arm. The same supplier that stocks the above bush also have a polybush for this location, so it made sense to swap it also.
The above set of trailing and control arms were then bolted up to the car with the shock and spring, with new hardware. When the trailing arms were powder coated, the M3 3.2 rear calipers were also stripped and done. I then built them up with new seals and pistons.
Got some CL RC5+ (to match the fronts), with new discs, and put them on the car..
This has taken it from 276x19mm > 312x20mm. More soon.
Last edited:
There has been a massive amount of changes over the past month, with the above being just one. Days have been spent stripping l excess wiring out of the engine and interior looms, then rewrapping everything and generally tidying things up. This saved a good 4-5kg which I could not believe - there is so much rubbish in there. You always think these are going to be 'quick' jobs but they are so time consuming. The cooling fan has also been re-wired so the ECU controls the relay, rather than a radiator switch, and a manual override added.
With the rear end components replaced, I obviously needed to get the alignment done again. I decided to ditch the current 'normal' tyres I use for wet days (RainSport2) for a set of Michelin Pilot Sport 3's. Still using the Federal RS-R on my other set of wheels for dry days.
Once those were sorted, I had the alignment done. Previously, I ran:
Camber - 2.3deg Front, 1.8deg Rear
Toe - 0 Square Front, Total 20' Toe In Rear
I have now changed this, increased camber and a tad more rear toe:
Camber - 3.1deg Front, 2.4deg Rear
Toe - 0 Square Front, Total 30' Toe In Rear
The rear is now around the 'stock' M3 3.2 spec, alignment wise with camber and toe. I will have to see how it feels and go from there - the additional poly bushes on the rear arms are noticeably different.
Next up was a change in gearbox mounts - the standard ones do not last long and go soft over time. There are a number of companies selling poly mounts, but I wanted to avoid the 'bolt through the middle' style as no doubt it would just drastically increase noise and vibration. Quite a number of people use the RevShift mounts, which are made by a small company in the US. I ordered a pair and a couple of weeks later they dropped through the letterbox..
They were then fitted, and I also changed the gearbox oil at the same time. My gearbox has been noisy for some time, and the oil has already been changed (75w90) around 12 months ago. I suspected the level may have been low, or it just wasn't thick enough, even though its the recommended grade. Since using the single mass flywheel I have also had gearbox 'chatter/rattle' on idle, which goes once you are moving, but it was annoying. Many people have had success with mixing RedLine oils, but the two I needed are not really readily available. I went for the Lightweight Shockproof instead...
Luckily this seems to have had a great effect, as shifts are now 100x smoother and 90% of the noise has gone.
With the track day at Spa fast approaching I had a list of things that needed sorting, as I had been putting them off all year. With one of the requirements being a fire extinguisher, I debated for some time about what to do. Hand held would be sufficient, but you still have to unclip it, take the pin out and then use it, all whilst trying to get out of the car over the cage, etc. With having the cage, and getting out being the highest priority in case of fire I wanted something a bit more substantial.
I ended up opting for a plumbed in system, went with OMP over Lifeline but either would have sufficed. I also wanted to have the electrical system isolated, as if the fire was actually started by an electrical fault in the event of a crash the extinguisher would be useless. This ended up being a massive time consuming job. I already had most of the inlet system removed from the engine at the time as the loom was being trimmed - which gave good access to sort some bulkhead fittings for battery cables / extinguisher piping.
The next problem was mounting two pull cables on the outside, as the bonnet comes right up to the windscreen on the E36. I got a bit creative with the 'vents' in the top of the bonnet, and notched them out so the pull handles would go through. Mounting bracket was then made, and cables passed through to the inside via the scuttle panel using a grommet.
Two nozzles were put in the engine bay and piped up (exhaust and inlet side), you can just about see them on each suspension turret. The pipework runs round the back of the engine in the same mounts as the brake line. Two were also fitted inside, one in each footwell.
On another note, the whole exhaust side of the chassis, bulkhead and part of the tunnel have had reflective tape installed to try and keep some of the heat out of the cabin when on track. You can just about see some of this on the above picture.
The extinguisher bottle was mounted behind the passenger seat, and pipework ran down the passenger side of the tunnel.
With that installed, I needed a pull handle inside to activate it if required. I also needed to mount the battery isolator, to which the exterior pull would connect. I had been meaning to move my gauges for some time, as the wideband used to be in the top centre vent, and the oil pressure/temperature in the middle of the clocks. I ditched the radio and made a panel to house them both on the dash, then mounted the isolator next to it. Swapped the clocks out and now I only have an aftermarket water temperature gauge in there.
At the same time, I replaced the standard OBC at the bottom of the centre console, which I had re-worked previously to use for the data logger. I now have a single switch for the data logger, so added some additional toggles for the radiator fan override, rear video camera power, etc. A bracket was made for the battery isolator pull cable and mounted to the dash - then a bracket was made for the extinguisher pull handle and that was mounted at the very bottom.
It all looks relatively simple, but making brackets, mounting things, is stupidly time consuming when doing a proper job of it. Obviously the extinguisher locking pin will remain in place when not out on a circuit.
Some other small jobs have also been done, like re-making the front brake ducts/mounts, moving charging points and adding new connectors to wiring, but never got any pictures of that. After a good month of messing about its pretty much ready for Spa, bar needing a quick clean.
More soon...
With the rear end components replaced, I obviously needed to get the alignment done again. I decided to ditch the current 'normal' tyres I use for wet days (RainSport2) for a set of Michelin Pilot Sport 3's. Still using the Federal RS-R on my other set of wheels for dry days.
Once those were sorted, I had the alignment done. Previously, I ran:
Camber - 2.3deg Front, 1.8deg Rear
Toe - 0 Square Front, Total 20' Toe In Rear
I have now changed this, increased camber and a tad more rear toe:
Camber - 3.1deg Front, 2.4deg Rear
Toe - 0 Square Front, Total 30' Toe In Rear
The rear is now around the 'stock' M3 3.2 spec, alignment wise with camber and toe. I will have to see how it feels and go from there - the additional poly bushes on the rear arms are noticeably different.
Next up was a change in gearbox mounts - the standard ones do not last long and go soft over time. There are a number of companies selling poly mounts, but I wanted to avoid the 'bolt through the middle' style as no doubt it would just drastically increase noise and vibration. Quite a number of people use the RevShift mounts, which are made by a small company in the US. I ordered a pair and a couple of weeks later they dropped through the letterbox..
They were then fitted, and I also changed the gearbox oil at the same time. My gearbox has been noisy for some time, and the oil has already been changed (75w90) around 12 months ago. I suspected the level may have been low, or it just wasn't thick enough, even though its the recommended grade. Since using the single mass flywheel I have also had gearbox 'chatter/rattle' on idle, which goes once you are moving, but it was annoying. Many people have had success with mixing RedLine oils, but the two I needed are not really readily available. I went for the Lightweight Shockproof instead...
Luckily this seems to have had a great effect, as shifts are now 100x smoother and 90% of the noise has gone.
With the track day at Spa fast approaching I had a list of things that needed sorting, as I had been putting them off all year. With one of the requirements being a fire extinguisher, I debated for some time about what to do. Hand held would be sufficient, but you still have to unclip it, take the pin out and then use it, all whilst trying to get out of the car over the cage, etc. With having the cage, and getting out being the highest priority in case of fire I wanted something a bit more substantial.
I ended up opting for a plumbed in system, went with OMP over Lifeline but either would have sufficed. I also wanted to have the electrical system isolated, as if the fire was actually started by an electrical fault in the event of a crash the extinguisher would be useless. This ended up being a massive time consuming job. I already had most of the inlet system removed from the engine at the time as the loom was being trimmed - which gave good access to sort some bulkhead fittings for battery cables / extinguisher piping.
The next problem was mounting two pull cables on the outside, as the bonnet comes right up to the windscreen on the E36. I got a bit creative with the 'vents' in the top of the bonnet, and notched them out so the pull handles would go through. Mounting bracket was then made, and cables passed through to the inside via the scuttle panel using a grommet.
Two nozzles were put in the engine bay and piped up (exhaust and inlet side), you can just about see them on each suspension turret. The pipework runs round the back of the engine in the same mounts as the brake line. Two were also fitted inside, one in each footwell.
On another note, the whole exhaust side of the chassis, bulkhead and part of the tunnel have had reflective tape installed to try and keep some of the heat out of the cabin when on track. You can just about see some of this on the above picture.
The extinguisher bottle was mounted behind the passenger seat, and pipework ran down the passenger side of the tunnel.
With that installed, I needed a pull handle inside to activate it if required. I also needed to mount the battery isolator, to which the exterior pull would connect. I had been meaning to move my gauges for some time, as the wideband used to be in the top centre vent, and the oil pressure/temperature in the middle of the clocks. I ditched the radio and made a panel to house them both on the dash, then mounted the isolator next to it. Swapped the clocks out and now I only have an aftermarket water temperature gauge in there.
At the same time, I replaced the standard OBC at the bottom of the centre console, which I had re-worked previously to use for the data logger. I now have a single switch for the data logger, so added some additional toggles for the radiator fan override, rear video camera power, etc. A bracket was made for the battery isolator pull cable and mounted to the dash - then a bracket was made for the extinguisher pull handle and that was mounted at the very bottom.
It all looks relatively simple, but making brackets, mounting things, is stupidly time consuming when doing a proper job of it. Obviously the extinguisher locking pin will remain in place when not out on a circuit.
Some other small jobs have also been done, like re-making the front brake ducts/mounts, moving charging points and adding new connectors to wiring, but never got any pictures of that. After a good month of messing about its pretty much ready for Spa, bar needing a quick clean.
More soon...
All the work you put into your car's never fails to amaze me.
JDM Dc2
s**t hot jord!
Need to race this now next year!
Need to race this now next year!
Hi there. Great build mate, a lot of work gone through your e36 .. well done . I hope you will forgive me by writing on your thread but I need to ask you a question in regards to the m50 stroker build and you seem to know your stuff pretty well . I have also decided to stroke the m50b25tu but I have come across a problem. I've found out that my m50 block needs to be rebored and I cannot use the m54 pistons anymore. Ideally it would be nice to find a low mileage m50 that only needs a hone but it's near to impossible therefore what could I do with this block of mine? I could probably get away with 84.5mm rebore but rather than risking it most likely better to do it 85mm or 86mm straight away and buy custom pistons. ( I reckon more than 86 is not permitted on the vanos block ?) . In this case I could probably just buy low compression pistons which would cost the same and do the turbo properly lol . I'm stuck in a position where I'm not sure what to do, maybe you guys could shed some light on me Thanks.
. I hope you will forgive me by writing on your thread but I need to ask you a question in regards to the m50 stroker build and you seem to know your stuff pretty well . I have also decided to stroke the m50b25tu but I have come across a problem. I've found out that my m50 block needs to be rebored and I cannot use the m54 pistons anymore. Ideally it would be nice to find a low mileage m50 that only needs a hone but it's near to impossible therefore what could I do with this block of mine? I could probably get away with 84.5mm rebore but rather than risking it most likely better to do it 85mm or 86mm straight away and buy custom pistons. ( I reckon more than 86 is not permitted on the vanos block ?) . In this case I could probably just buy low compression pistons which would cost the same and do the turbo properly lol . I'm stuck in a position where I'm not sure what to do, maybe you guys could shed some light on me Thanks.A couple of days before heading off for Spa I had the car out and noticed the wideband going off the scale at high RPM/wide open throttle. Panic set in and I thought there was an issue with either the map, fuel system or engine itself! I logged a bit of data and the wideband was bottoming out at 10.1...
I initially checked the logs against some from the last track day at Cadwell, and everything seemed normal bar the wideband reading (trims, manifold pressure, etc). I swapped the fuel rail, fuel pressure regulator and checked over everything else in the dark after work but still the gauge was reading off the scale. I had disabled closed loop fuelling on the ECU at this point as I was confident the map was actually fine and it was possibly just the gauge/sensor playing up.
I spoke to Chris @ EFI-Parts who originally mapped it, explained the situation and he offered to run the car that very evening in his own time to double check the map and engine were fine as I was leaving the day after! We did a few power runs and instantly realised the wideband was completely broken, his own wideband reading was spot on and the car made the same power as it did when it was first mapped. Massive relief!
He keeps the wideband sensors in stock, so I got one from him and swapped it before getting on the ferry the following day. Old sensor:
Loaded up the car and headed off to Hull to catch the overnight ferry - the forecast was changing by the hour and there had already been a covering of snow at Spa the previous day. Temperatures were around 2-3C, so we just had to hope for the best. I wasn't too concerned as I had the Pilot Sport 3's as an alternative tyre if the conditions were not up to the RS-Rs. We arrived in Stavelot late morning, 2C and raining. The forecast had improved for Friday, so we were hopeful.
The next day at the track, it was damp but the rain had stopped. I stuck on the Michelins all morning until a dry line started to appear just before lunch - in a way this was good as it gave an opportunity to learn the circuit at a slower pace. The car was issue free throughout the morning and the new alignment settings felt great, even in the damp.
Swapped wheels to the Federals during lunch and spent most of the afternoon on track - covering just over 275 miles throughout the day.
The car was spot on and drove fantastically in the dry, the rebuilt LSD gives far better traction from corners, and the new ratio seems to be a great match for the power band of the engine. Not to mention Spa itself, what a fantastic circuit. By far the best one I've driven so far, flows so much more than I ever expected.
As the day went on the lap times dropped as I got used to the shorter gearing and available grip with the new alignment settings. 4th and 5th are now used most of the time compared to 3rd and 4th with the old ratio.
Pleased to report the 'problem hub nut' is still locked in place and has not moved, which has made the rear end swap worthwhile! Just need to put some fuel in ready for Donington next week and take it from there!
I initially checked the logs against some from the last track day at Cadwell, and everything seemed normal bar the wideband reading (trims, manifold pressure, etc). I swapped the fuel rail, fuel pressure regulator and checked over everything else in the dark after work but still the gauge was reading off the scale. I had disabled closed loop fuelling on the ECU at this point as I was confident the map was actually fine and it was possibly just the gauge/sensor playing up.
I spoke to Chris @ EFI-Parts who originally mapped it, explained the situation and he offered to run the car that very evening in his own time to double check the map and engine were fine as I was leaving the day after! We did a few power runs and instantly realised the wideband was completely broken, his own wideband reading was spot on and the car made the same power as it did when it was first mapped. Massive relief!
He keeps the wideband sensors in stock, so I got one from him and swapped it before getting on the ferry the following day. Old sensor:
Loaded up the car and headed off to Hull to catch the overnight ferry - the forecast was changing by the hour and there had already been a covering of snow at Spa the previous day. Temperatures were around 2-3C, so we just had to hope for the best. I wasn't too concerned as I had the Pilot Sport 3's as an alternative tyre if the conditions were not up to the RS-Rs. We arrived in Stavelot late morning, 2C and raining. The forecast had improved for Friday, so we were hopeful.
The next day at the track, it was damp but the rain had stopped. I stuck on the Michelins all morning until a dry line started to appear just before lunch - in a way this was good as it gave an opportunity to learn the circuit at a slower pace. The car was issue free throughout the morning and the new alignment settings felt great, even in the damp.
Swapped wheels to the Federals during lunch and spent most of the afternoon on track - covering just over 275 miles throughout the day.
The car was spot on and drove fantastically in the dry, the rebuilt LSD gives far better traction from corners, and the new ratio seems to be a great match for the power band of the engine. Not to mention Spa itself, what a fantastic circuit. By far the best one I've driven so far, flows so much more than I ever expected.
As the day went on the lap times dropped as I got used to the shorter gearing and available grip with the new alignment settings. 4th and 5th are now used most of the time compared to 3rd and 4th with the old ratio.
Pleased to report the 'problem hub nut' is still locked in place and has not moved, which has made the rear end swap worthwhile! Just need to put some fuel in ready for Donington next week and take it from there!
Great write up as always. When are you at Donington?
