Its easy to see when you drive one of these in good condition now while so many journos raved about them when new, even in 2013 they still handle well compared to cars on sale now, let alone over a dozen years ago.
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Its easy to see when you drive one of these in good condition now while so many journos raved about them when new, even in 2013 they still handle well compared to cars on sale now, let alone over a dozen years ago.
I remember thinking the same thing on my 106 - did a full overhaul of all the bushes (rear beam, front arms etc...) and fitted all new steering components - went out and the thing was so tight and precise. Finally understood the episode of top gear where they rated it the 2nd best car in the world after throwing it around a circuit all day
It's suprising how much a load of worn bushes can affect the way a car feels
I'm hoping my current impression of Clios (kinda vague steering, light front end) will be replaced with "ooooh this turns in quick" once this is done lol
It's suprising how much a load of worn bushes can affect the way a car feels
I'm hoping my current impression of Clios (kinda vague steering, light front end) will be replaced with "ooooh this turns in quick" once this is done lol
IME you would have to have VERY high expectations for a well setup clio to not please you
182cup & 172 racecar
That's why I keep telling people, forget about coilovers etc, and just renew everything. Cheaper and brilliant.
There should be a massive banner on the top of this site that says "Listen to Tony" lol
I replaced bottom ball joints and track rod ends last year and it did help - but I didn't even realise the rack itself could have play in it or the inner tie rods were a serviceable item
I'm pretty sure they aren't on 106's
I replaced bottom ball joints and track rod ends last year and it did help - but I didn't even realise the rack itself could have play in it or the inner tie rods were a serviceable item
I'm pretty sure they aren't on 106's
You need a RARB, I have never driven a car that is so pointy and eager to turn, they steer from the rear with accelerator and brakes with the setup I have just now.
I'm loving my thing, brake slowly to just before an apex then jar the brakes a bit and throw it in at that point, awesome. Same goes for lift off mid corner, and for all the steer ability at the rear it never feels out of control.
182cup & 172 racecar
Lol, when you take out the old tie rods, they flop about like a pissed tramp trying to dance.
Swede - got a whiteline ARB - fitted it years ago. It did make a huge difference but the front has always still felt vague and understeery
Tony - uh huh hahaa
Tony - uh huh hahaa
Talking of uprated bushes/bearings - I've just seen that PMS now do uprated bearings for their top mounts
http://www.pure-motorsport.co.uk/details.php?itemid=179
Might be worth a try I think as the standard ones are quite loose and have a bit of play in them - although at £50 per side maybe next month lol
http://www.pure-motorsport.co.uk/details.php?itemid=179
Might be worth a try I think as the standard ones are quite loose and have a bit of play in them - although at £50 per side maybe next month lol
182cup & 172 racecar
Try raising the rear a couple of turns.
That's what I'm gonna try next. Got cadwell evening session booked for May 15th - just gonna go up there with my coilover spanners and try a load of different settings on the KW's
Now i've ditched the bilsteins I can actually play with damping rates and heights to see if I can dial out the understeer a bit
Really, I remember watching a video of yours from a while back. Anglesey iirc and your car was pretty poor tbh, iirc you have never had good tyres or a proper geo done right?
I eyeballed my camber and toe until I was happy it wouldn't need taking apart for some reason or other and it drove like dig s**t, I was pretty disheartened as I just spent all that time and money doing a refresh and it felt for nothing. Done the geo and its not even 100% yet and what a car for b-road blasts. All my mates have commented on its grip, one having had just sold his DC5 which we all now of its road holding prowess.
It has had a proper geo done - but no the tyres are shitty uniroyal road tyres
I'm whacking a set of RSR's on my credit card before Cadwell I think lol
The geo setup on the hunter system in Lincoln costs me like £70 a go
I want to try setting up the toe with the string method as I've watched nearly all the BTCC teams do that and I don't want to have to pay £70 each time I want to try a bit more/less toe
The camber last time I fitted camber bolts I measured between the hub and the strut on both sides to make sure it was the same and when it went in for digital geo he said they were within 0.025degrees of each other - so was pretty happy with that lol
I'm whacking a set of RSR's on my credit card before Cadwell I think lol
The geo setup on the hunter system in Lincoln costs me like £70 a go
I want to try setting up the toe with the string method as I've watched nearly all the BTCC teams do that and I don't want to have to pay £70 each time I want to try a bit more/less toe
The camber last time I fitted camber bolts I measured between the hub and the strut on both sides to make sure it was the same and when it went in for digital geo he said they were within 0.025degrees of each other - so was pretty happy with that lol
Yeah the BTCC team I was with last year had 2 metal bars with marks on that they tied fishing line around - they'd gone to the hassle of making the bars slot into the chassis on the car so it was dead central - but reading on the net the method of metal bars on axel stands that you parallel to the car measuring from chassis rails seems to be easy enough to setup.
I'm lucky that my garage was built with a very level floor - just not so lucky that it's quite narrow
I'm lucky that my garage was built with a very level floor - just not so lucky that it's quite narrow
I'm only running hankook s1 evo's on Northloop's recommendations which at £50-60 and I'm impressed do far, will probably melt them on track mind you.
Doing your camber that way never guarantees the same degrees side for side which then also gives your steering two different bump and rebound curves throwing everything off. Camber guage and string method okay but tape measure and string not so much as you don't have a reliable datum to work from.
I understand the cost thing but get everything right to start with and work from that. Try your local Kwik fit as they are outfitting all there branches with hunter machines and the final printout can't lie like the old laser alignment. The computer walks them through it so it is hard to go wrong, you just need to spec your desired settings as they only have a base setting on the computer. Only £40 for a front geo which gives you a rear printout too, you can get it for cheaper if there's dodgy guys doing cashiers like my local lol.
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Kw's are easy to setup phil. Full stiff at the rear and about 13 clicks on the fronts. The standard v2 setup at the rear however, needs stiffer springs and the dampers re valving for a lot of track use. That's what I did on mine.
Other than that they are excellent!
Other than that they are excellent!
I've got the rear to about 3/4 stiff at the moment and the front on about half - definitely doesn't understeer anymore on the road
Will probably crack it up to stiffest on the rear when I get to cadwell
Will probably crack it up to stiffest on the rear when I get to cadwell
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Mines on full stiff at the rear all the time! Lol! Unless its wet, then it goes to full soft.
Update
GSF got the right tie rods in for me - and thanks to Swede Cup on CS they're exactly right for the cup
Fitted those to the rack last night, fitted the new track rod ends to the same position as on the old rack so hopefully that'll be "ok" to get me going until I can get the geometry setup properly
Rack fitted to the car, lengthened the column as it was a bit short for some reason, connected it all up, re-torqued the subframe and engine/gearbox mounts etc.. all back up and jobs a good un
Pushed the car back into the garage with Leah trying to steer and my god it's hard to turn at walking pace LOL
Best news is though the clonking noise I had when you wiggle the steering wheel left and right while parked up is completely gone - so job well done in my books
Few crappy phone pictures...
Only things left to do now is wire up the EPAS when the box turns up - and also the adjuster bolt on the alternator snapped and just waiting for a guy to send me one so I can get that sorted.
GSF got the right tie rods in for me - and thanks to Swede Cup on CS they're exactly right for the cup
Fitted those to the rack last night, fitted the new track rod ends to the same position as on the old rack so hopefully that'll be "ok" to get me going until I can get the geometry setup properly
Rack fitted to the car, lengthened the column as it was a bit short for some reason, connected it all up, re-torqued the subframe and engine/gearbox mounts etc.. all back up and jobs a good un
Pushed the car back into the garage with Leah trying to steer and my god it's hard to turn at walking pace LOL
Best news is though the clonking noise I had when you wiggle the steering wheel left and right while parked up is completely gone - so job well done in my books
Few crappy phone pictures...
Only things left to do now is wire up the EPAS when the box turns up - and also the adjuster bolt on the alternator snapped and just waiting for a guy to send me one so I can get that sorted.
Phil, is your EPAS up and running now?
Waiting for the box off eBay mate
Great thread this mate, just to say thanks for posting all the info, think I'll be doing this as mine is leaking from the PAS pump atm and it makes a rumbling noise at start up when cold, stops after 2-3 mins and hope it'll last to October this year, I had PAS fluid pissing out of the resovoir after 6-7 quick laps around a kart circuit last week.
Regards Russ........
No worries mate
When the epas ecu box thing has turned up i'll do a guide to wiring it up - and take pics of everything I've fitted so far
I'll post a full list of part numbers for anyone wanting a "tested" solution too
When the epas ecu box thing has turned up i'll do a guide to wiring it up - and take pics of everything I've fitted so far
I'll post a full list of part numbers for anyone wanting a "tested" solution too
When the epas ecu box thing has turned up i'll do a guide to wiring it up - and take pics of everything I've fitted so far
I'll post a full list of part numbers for anyone wanting a "tested" solution too
Brilliant! Look forward to that.
I need to renew my tie rods and rack bushes so I've thought why not do the DCi rack. I'll be fititng the 182 manifold soon with the subframe dropped so it's an ideal opportunity to get it done.
Would there be any issue with fitting the rack to the existing column and then swapping to a EPAS column at a later date? Apart form heavier steering...
That's an ideal time to do it - the 182 manifold is a pig to fit and in hind-sight I wish I had swapped the rack at the same time
The hardest work is removing the standard 172 rack - the PAS pipes are bolted to the block all over the place and are very difficult to get out
I ended up just cutting them into pieces as I knew I wasn't going back to the old PAS system lol
No problem at all except the steering is VERY heavy at slow speeds even for me and I'm a big bloke.
The hardest work is removing the standard 172 rack - the PAS pipes are bolted to the block all over the place and are very difficult to get out
I ended up just cutting them into pieces as I knew I wasn't going back to the old PAS system lol
No problem at all except the steering is VERY heavy at slow speeds even for me and I'm a big bloke.
Guys with EPAS (northloop, bigash etc...)
Just got my wiring box through the post - pretty excited
Gonna pull the dash top off tonight and get working on the wiring
Quick question - I can see it needs a 60A fuse (included) and a permanent power supply on that big cable going into the ecu
What gauge cable did you guys use for it? and did you just crimp it to the chopped off bit on the ecu plug - or did you re-wire the plug?
Also where did you put the big earth - can I just bolt it to the column or does it need to go on a long cable to an earthing point on the body work or something?
Cheers
Just got my wiring box through the post - pretty excited
Gonna pull the dash top off tonight and get working on the wiring
Quick question - I can see it needs a 60A fuse (included) and a permanent power supply on that big cable going into the ecu
What gauge cable did you guys use for it? and did you just crimp it to the chopped off bit on the ecu plug - or did you re-wire the plug?
Also where did you put the big earth - can I just bolt it to the column or does it need to go on a long cable to an earthing point on the body work or something?
Cheers
I used 8.5mm cable which is rated to 63amps the only crimps I could find for that gauge of wire are metal ones so I am adhesive heat shrinking over it. The crimp tool for them is pretty hefty too lol! I looked at remaking the plug but couldn't find the terminals.
I am running my earth down to a bare section of metal (no paint) and using a ring terminal
I am running my earth down to a bare section of metal (no paint) and using a ring terminal
Cheers mate
Yeah I seem to remember when I had the cable made up for moving the battery to the boot that the auto-electrician used some huge crimps - another tool to buy lol
Yeah I seem to remember when I had the cable made up for moving the battery to the boot that the auto-electrician used some huge crimps - another tool to buy lol
I think the tool cost me about 70 quid so I wouldn't buy it lol! Your welcome to cut the the wires to size and post to me with the crimps and I will just crimp them up with my tool
Oh wow didn't realise they'd be that expensive haha!
Cheers mate - I'll get some cable bought and get it all measured up for length. Might even pop up one day while you're working on the car and come have a nosey at it
Cheers mate - I'll get some cable bought and get it all measured up for length. Might even pop up one day while you're working on the car and come have a nosey at it
Yeah - with a 60a power cable running along the dash though - I think i'd rather trust a proper crimp than my own soldering abilities
If it comes loose I'll end up with a dashboard fire lol
If it comes loose I'll end up with a dashboard fire lol
Oh wow didn't realise they'd be that expensive haha!
Cheers mate - I'll get some cable bought and get it all measured up for length. Might even pop up one day while you're working on the car and come have a nosey at it
Lol typical wiring tools
Sounds like a plan
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Or alternatively, use an m6 nut, put the terminal in the vice along with said nut, tighten vice and hey presto! Easy terminal crimping. It may sound a bit ghetto, but its a very effective solution. Especially if your in the s**t!
Haha I might try that as I've got a vice on the bench. Can always chop it off and try again if it goes wrong
Not as vibration proof though on a racecar to be fair, although I'd happily solder it too and just keep an eye on it over time.
I think I might just do the m6 crimp thing with some solder - should be fine
I'm going to clip it across the support beams under the dash all the way along anyway so shouldn't be much vibration
Just need to find somewhere for the ecu to fit!
I'm going to clip it across the support beams under the dash all the way along anyway so shouldn't be much vibration
Just need to find somewhere for the ecu to fit!
I got a replacement tensioner bolt for my alternator last night (mine snapped while I was trying to tension it) so got the engine all back together and running.
Took a few iPhone pics
New shorter alternator belt (thanks James/Northloop for the part number) -
Bye bye PAS pump -
No more pipework means oil filter changes are gonna be much easier LOL -
Terrible pictures of how the new rack mounts -
And all back up and running
My review of the car with no power assistance at all - HELL
I don't think I'd want to drive it even at track speeds with no assistance, parking it in my garage you need hulk like arms lol
Just got to get the dash top off at the weekend now and start mounting the control box for the EPAS, and mount the EPAS ECU.
Hopefully should be up and running next week
Took a few iPhone pics
New shorter alternator belt (thanks James/Northloop for the part number
) -Bye bye PAS pump -
No more pipework means oil filter changes are gonna be much easier LOL -
Terrible pictures of how the new rack mounts -
And all back up and running
My review of the car with no power assistance at all - HELL
I don't think I'd want to drive it even at track speeds with no assistance, parking it in my garage you need hulk like arms lol
Just got to get the dash top off at the weekend now and start mounting the control box for the EPAS, and mount the EPAS ECU.
Hopefully should be up and running next week
