M100CUP - RB 182 Sprint and Hillclimb Car

[McGherkin]

That Gould is ridiculous. Believe it was a 59 second lap.

I’ll be doing Watergate bay, although so is literally everybody else, so I think the bigger race is to get the entry forms in. I’ve had a word with some of the organisers and the plans sound really good. They’ll be looking to make the course longer in later years.

You doing Portreath?

 

[GrahamV182]

That Gould is ridiculous. Believe it was a 59 second lap

You doing Portreath?

Sadly I don't think I can do Portreath.... are you doing Castle hillclimb, near Lostwithiel? I believe the entry forms are out?

(Forgot to say ... Heather set a new outright record)

 

[McGherkin]

There’s another date later in the year? It’s a great event, one of the best on the local calendar IMO.

I probably won’t be driving Castle, but my uncle might do it so I’ll be there if so. Saving my money for the sprints!

 

[GrahamV182]

Catch the Pigeon Sprint - April 2018

What a contrast to Castle Combe last week -

• Castle Combe - top speed 120 mph, most straights about 100 mph;
• Clay Pigeon Raceway - top speed about 60 mph, average speed about 40 mph (second gear all the way around).

Still enjoyed both events and I was (slightly) more competitive at Clay Pigeon where you don't have to be so brave. The format is just under two laps of the kart circuit - making for lots of hairpin bends. Video below -

Time of 87 seconds - two seconds off my best in the Clio. Very stiff competition again - or am I just getting slower? The competition included -

• Supercharged Lotus Elise (lovely car - won the class);
• 3 Mitsubishi Taxis (Turbo charged EVO 1s)
• Turbo charged Mazda 323 (4 wheel drive - quite rare I believe)
• MX5s, SEATS, etc

I was about 5 seconds off the class winner - I could probably go a second or two faster on softer tyres but I was well beaten.
Car behaved faultlessly - no dramas - drive there, have some fun, drive home, simple.

Some snaps from around the circuit -

(above) Immaculate Ginetta G4 by Dare

Lotus Exige (3.5 litre Toyota V6 Supercharged)

Caterham 620R (Cosworth - remapped to 353 bhp)

My favourite Mini - 1380 cc - car rebuilt 2 years ago - goes really well.

A very nice MG Midget - which I had not seen competing before.

Next event: Wiscombe Park Hillclimb - weekend 28th and 29th April. Need some soft tyres before then... if it stops raining

 

[McGherkin]

The 620R and Ginetta are regulars, both great cars which I'd give my left nut for.

 

[Rob Thomson]

Must do Clay Pigeon one day!

Graham, to go back over old ground, there's definitely something weird with the steering on your car. It's sooo long winded compared with mine. It must cost you masses of time, especially at venues like Clay. Watching our onboards from Castle Combe you're using about 50% more lock than me through most corners. Must be a geometry thing with your suspension set-up.

 

[Rob Thomson]

PS. I want that Mini.

 

[GrahamV182]

Must do Clay Pigeon one day!

Graham, to go back over old ground, there's definitely something weird with the steering on your car. It's sooo long winded compared with mine. It must cost you masses of time, especially at venues like Clay. Watching our onboards from Castle Combe you're using about 50% more lock than me through most corners. Must be a geometry thing with your suspension set-up.

Hi Rob
Yes..... but i'm not sure what the problem is: the only difference that I'm aware of is that mine is slightly lower than yours and I have some negative camber bolts. I'm on the standard 182 power steering rack.

The only other thing i can think of is could it be pure 'understeer' ..... and I have to turn the steering wheel more to get it to corner? My suspension is rock hard at the moment - I might soften the shock absorbers and see if that improves the turn-in.

Could you have a drive of mine around the paddock next time we bump into each other and confirm my steering is much slower than yours? Perhaps we could do a static, side-by-side comparison - see what one turn of the steering wheel looks like on each car?

 

[Rob Thomson]

Yeah, of course we can do that - and have a drive of mine if you'd like.

It doesn't look like it's understeering but it is difficult to be sure from the onboard vid.

 

[GrahamV182]

Wiscombe Park Hillclimb - Saturday 28th April

My first event at Wiscombe this year - it was nice to be back and great to meet up with old friends and chat to all the new entrants.

Conditions were a bit mixed - and Wiscombe can be a very unforgiving hill in slippy conditions. There are no run off areas on the twisty bits and you run very close to the trees. The following facebook video is Anthony 'Spuddy' Bailey in his immaculate Mk 1 Ford Escort - thankfully the car was not too badly damaged and he was able to compete in the rest of the event:



I was running on my road tyres (Uniroyal RS3s) so I wasn't anticipating a fast time - I ended up 7th out of 18 in Class. Respectable ... but not brilliant.

Photo of M100CUP by @Rob Thomson -

Competition was close in mid table with just 2 seconds covering 10 competitors - the turbo charged Audis and EVOs with their four wheel drive had a real advantage over the rest of the field. Incredible to see the class winning 350 bhp, four wheel drive Audi launch off the start line - comparing times I was nearly a second down in the first 64 feet

A little bit of a break from competition now for the next few weeks whilst my wife is away in Barcelona. Jobs to keep me busy on the car include -

• Fit a Pure Motorsport shifter instead of the KTR short jobbie;
• New starter motor and solenoid (with a heat shield!);
• New set of Extreme VR2s (R5 compound);
• MOT.

 

[Rob Thomson]

Wow - I hadn't seen the onboard!

Amazingly little damage considering the violence of that crash.

 

[Brushwood69]

Hi Graham, hope the new season is going well! I've just had a major failure on a number of fronts including the front left wheel parting company with the car! I also blew the new clutch and smashed the gearbox. I'm just about to pull the trigger on a 4 paddle clutch and noticed you had a helix. So thought I would ask a few questions!!
1. How does it drive?
2. Light weight flywheel? Make?
3. Do you have the part numbers of the clutch?

Are you coming down to Portreath/Castle/Watergate Bay?

Nath

 

[GrahamV182]

Hi N,

Just got back from a week in Cornwall looking at houses ... we stayed at a lovely cottage inTrelights near Port Isaac. Doombar beer in the local as well

It sounds like you've had an interesting time with your car ?

Helix clutch .... love it. The pedal is a fair bit heavier than standard and it bites quite quickly. Until you get used to it you may stall the car a few times. The trick is to keep the revs up...... not a problem in competition but can be a bit of a handful on the road.

As far as I know I have a standard flywheel .... but it may be lighter (hence the need to keep the revs up?) The clutch / gearbox came with the rolling shell - so sorry i dont have any part numbers.

How on earth did you break the gearbox? I thought it was a fresh recon box? Rod Thorne (Pilbeam V8) just fitted a PMS shifter for me from the bulk buy ..... big improvement over the old short shifter. Sadly I've now fried my starter motor so Rod's doing that for me next week.

I'm down for the August Castle Hillclimb at Lostwithiel.... George is organising a meal at the Globe on Saturday night. My competition is more from a social angle these days - the times are becoming less important lol. Did you see someone is organising another trackday at llandow in July? I have an email in my inbox about it. I think its the usual suspects.

Also applied for Castle Combe sprint, Llandow sprint, Clay Pigeon sprint and hopefully Manor Farm hillclimb. Watergate with its closed road format would be the icing on the 2018 cake.

Let me know how you get on

G

 

[GrahamV182]

Yes, I've neglected the car and competitions for a while - house move and things just seemed to get in the way Anyway a few quick updates -

PMS Shifter fitted (from the ClioSport bulk buy) - really nice bit of kit:

Clay Pigeon Sprint (22nd July 2018) -

Not my finest hour...….. Old, bald, medium compound Extreme VR2 tyres is my excuse - I had the embarrassment of a spin on the second corner of the first practice session at about 20 mph. No damage …. just my pride was badly dented and I took a lot of flak from fellow competitors.



Result - mid table in class. Great to meet up with old mates who I hadn't seen for a couple of months.

New Tyres - Interstate Race DNRT 80 (Soft Compound) - (25th July 2018) -

I was disappointed that my favourite tyres (Extreme VR2 R5 compound) had gone up to £115 per corner - when I first bought some from Poland they were just £65 (inc delivery). £115 seemed a lot for remoulds so I looked around and found these Interstate Race tyres (which are MSA List 1B so OK for competitions) for £259 for 4 tyres inc delivery.

Dick Mayo Sprint Castle Combe (28th July 2018)

Probably the biggest entry in class A3 that I have seen - total of 25 in class. Its a lovely event - although there are 150 cars entered the day works well as cars are dispatched about every 20 seconds. All credit to Bristol Motor club for the slick organisation.

I was in 8th in class after Practice - which sadly dropped to 14th after the first competition run. I regained a little kudos - finishing 10th in class. Sadly 5 seconds off the class winner (a fantastic supercharged Lotus Elise).

Video of my last run of the day -



Tyres performed very well - my fastest time on the Extreme VR2s was 74.97 seconds. My time on the Interstate Race DNRT was 75.11seconds - with more to come. Given that the Extremes were nearly twice the price, I'm happy with the Interstate tyres.

Some snaps from around the paddock - i.e. cars that I liked.

A nice BMW - not sure what model or engine but it was quick ….

A pair of Mitsubishi Taxis in class A4....

Funny I still have a soft spot for classic minis ….

Other news -

• Back at Castle Combe for the Bristol Pegasus MC track day in a couple of weeks. Its one of the nicest track days - very civilised, well organised and certainly not a demolition derby
• My entry for the Watergate Bay Hillclimb, Cornwall (first UK hillclimb on closed roads) was turned down. Sad …. because I have spent days travelling up and down the A30 to Cornwall supporting Cornish Motorsport. Oh well …. maybe next time.

 

[Greeny.]

Cheap tyres for all 4! How come you pick these random brands? Purely for cost?

 

[donnylad]

any idea why your entry was turned down? maybe just because they are full or only picking certain cars?

Was really hoping to do it next year if it gets the go ahead again

 

[GrahamV182]

Cheap tyres for all 4! How come you pick these random brands? Purely for cost?

I don't think they are random For the class I run in I am restricted to list 1b tyres ... About 15 different types of tyre. R888R, AR1, etc are the usual ones - a safe bet but expensive if you get through a couple of sets a year.

For sprinting and hillclimbing you really want the softest tyre you can get. I used to love kumho v70a supersoft compound with a treadware of just 40. The best you can get now in list 1b is a treadware of 80. The interstate are 80 .... so pretty good.

From my measurements the extreme vr2s in R5 compound are the softest tyre available ... but now they are popular they are twice the price of two years ago.

My time at Castle Combe on the Extremes was 74.9 .... On the interstate my time was 75.1. Pretty close and the conditions were a bit worse yesterday.

The only down side to the interstates is that they may not be available next year so may not be on the MSA list.... But they will be bald by then

 

[GrahamV182]

any idea why your entry was turned down? maybe just because they are full or only picking certain cars?

Was really hoping to do it next year if it gets the go ahead again

Over subscribed... And they were picking the best cars as they want a good show. Sadly I don't think an old Clio 182 fits the bill....

It'll probably rain anyway .....

 

[Rob Thomson]

Good to see you yesterday!

Your lines around Combe are loads better now, I'm going to have to watch out next time!

 

[Brushwood69]

They had 150 entries without any race cars. Im not sure how they picked but I do know that my old Clio 182 fitted the bill! Car number 118 maybe because Rally Car! #182%Motorsport!!

 

[R29TJR]

I don't think they are random For the class I run in I am restricted to list 1b tyres ... About 15 different types of tyre. R888R, AR1, etc are the usual ones - a safe bet but expensive if you get through a couple of sets a year.

For sprinting and hillclimbing you really want the softest tyre you can get. I used to love kumho v70a supersoft compound with a treadware of just 40. The best you can get now in list 1b is a treadware of 80. The interstate are 80 .... so pretty good.

From my measurements the extreme vr2s in R5 compound are the softest tyre available ... but now they are popular they are twice the price of two years ago.

My time at Castle Combe on the Extremes was 74.9 .... On the interstate my time was 75.1. Pretty close and the conditions were a bit worse yesterday.

The only down side to the interstates is that they may not be available next year so may not be on the MSA list.... But they will be bald by then

I read yesterday that Interstate went bust! So only stock tyres left, I'll copy your next recommendation!

 

[McGherkin]

I got turned down for Watergate too. I'll still be going though! See you at Castle, are you planning on driving at Portreath?

 

[GrahamV182]

I got turned down for Watergate too. I'll still be going though! See you at Castle, are you planning on driving at Portreath?

Sadly - I've just had to pull out of the Castle Hillclimb. My wife has had to go to stay with a friend in Devon … so I'm dog sitting in Dorset this weekend :-(

I've never done Portreath - I believe that's a Sprint on an airfield?

 

[GrahamV182]

Pic of M100CUP at Castle Combe last Saturday - pinched from twitter

Results sheet from Castle Combe (28th July 2018) - 25 in class which has to be some sort of record: nice grouping of the four Clios

 

[McGherkin]

Ah, that's a shame.

Yes, it's at RRH Portreath. But it's a good event, sadly you can't have any cameras there but you'll have to trust me, it's a good one. Hillclimb-ey for the most part but then goes onto the runway with a fast slalom.

 

[donnylad]

sorry to go a little off topic, but as you compete you might know. I am going into modified production so can use slicks etc, is there a list of slicks I need to choose from or can I use literally any tyre in that class?

Thanks!

 

[GrahamV182]

Tyre choice is free in modified - I've just looked at pages 343 and 344 of the Blue Book and I cant see any reference to tyres...… so no restrictions.

If you don't want two sets of wheels and tyres (wet weather and dry) then I suggest you look at the list 1C tyres as a compromise. Kumho, Avon, Dunlop, etc all have track orientated tyres which give some grip in the wet.

 

[donnylad]

I have some PS3's at the min which I might keep for rainy days, unless I can pick something up better, cheap.

My idea for drys is another set of pro race TD 1.2s with slicks.

I will then try and get the cheapest shitest wheels I can find to leave the car sat on between meets and to use on the trailer etc

 

[GrahamV182]

I have some PS3's at the min which I might keep for rainy days, unless I can pick something up better, cheap.

My idea for drys is another set of pro race TD 1.2s with slicks.

I will then try and get the cheapest shitest wheels I can find to leave the car sat on between meets and to use on the trailer etc

You will need soft or super-soft compound slicks for sprints / hillclimbs. Not cheap - I think you will need to budget about £800 for a new set of tyres ….. plus wheels, fitting, balancing etc.

 

[donnylad]

Yeah I did get recommended some, although cant remember what they were, they were £1200 a set. I cant afford that in year one though, with the cost of everything else. Hopefully i can find something second hand

 

[R29TJR]

Tyre choice is free in modified - I've just looked at pages 343 and 344 of the Blue Book and I cant see any reference to tyres...… so no restrictions.

If you don't want two sets of wheels and tyres (wet weather and dry) then I suggest you look at the list 1C tyres as a compromise. Kumho, Avon, Dunlop, etc all have track orientated tyres which give some grip in the wet.

Yeah I did get recommended some, although cant remember what they were, they were £1200 a set. I cant afford that in year one though, with the cost of everything else. Hopefully i can find something second hand

I think it was mentioned in the other thread but are you not better being in a lower class? It may have been mentioned in the other thread.

 

[donnylad]

Yes maybe, but I would be the only one competing in that class :/

 

[GrahamV182]

Yes maybe, but I would be the only one competing in that class :/

That's interesting ... Just shows the difference across regions: 25 in 'Road Going Series Production Class up to 2.6 litre' last Saturday at Castle Combe - biggest class by miles. I think there was 8 in the equivalent "modified" class....

Might be cheaper to move house ....

 

[R29TJR]

That's interesting ... Just shows the difference across regions: 25 in 'Road Going Series Production Class up to 2.6 litre' last Saturday at Castle Combe - biggest class by miles. I think there was 8 in the equivalent "modified" class....

Might be cheaper to move house ....

I thought the same my class has been up there with the biggest also.

Modified only tends to have one!

 

[donnylad]

the SDCC isnt a massive championship to be honest, but its within an hour, a nice easy track for my first year,and I like the people there!

looking at the 2018 championship table for the up to 2 litre class

https://www.curborough.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/ChampionshipResults2018Round5.pdf

SC - standard production - 9 entries
1B - road going - 0 entries
3B - modified production - 6 entries

Ideally SC would of been great, but car had to much done to it to put back, and I didn't want to swap it.

Dont know how things compare to other sprints, general format is 2 practice runs 2 competitive runs, sometimes 3 if their is time (less entries).

Costs are around £85-£95 for the day depending if its single lap, double lap or figure of 8.

 

[GrahamV182]

Ah... Don't confuse the championship with the event: some road going cars may enter the actual event without being entered in the championship.

Do you see what I mean? As an example there were 150 cars entered at Castle Combe but only about a dozen in the ASWMC championship, 10 in the TR championship, a dozen in the MX5 championship etc etc so you can enter an event without being in the championship.

Have got an entry list from one of the events?

 

[Rotoryboy]

I love reading this thread. Where do I find out what I can do to the Clio under modified?

 

[Brushwood69]

@Rotoryboy The MSA Blue book is the bible! pdf for sprints/hillclimbs here https://www.msauk.org/assets/339-350specificregulationsforsprintshillclimbsanddragracings-1.pdf Section 12 Regulations for Modified Series Production Cars and Modified Specialist Production Cars + other bits throughout!

 

[GrahamV182]

I love reading this thread. Where do I find out what I can do to the Clio under modified?

As @Brushwood69 says above ... The Blue Book is the bible but it can be a bit daunting when you first read it. it's the best place to start. Any specific questions then just shout out .......

 

[Rotoryboy]

Thanks for the link. I have my B licence so have had a read of the Blue book but as said, it is a little daunting on what I can and can't do lol