270bhp Clio 172 cup with Audi TT engine

[Ex-User (19928)]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Yeah was gonna say if it's dying round corners then that'd be fuel system related. Fill the tank and if it doesn't do it round corners then that's your problem.

Sounds like an absolute weapon though!

 

[Waitey]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

You need a better pump in there asap.

VAG units run a silly high pressure.

 

[Floodie]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Davo: yes they are ridiculous arent they.. Apparently the company that made the coil packs for VAG went bankrupt soley due to them being returned under guarentee. I'm thinking of still changing all the coils BUT they still work fine whilst the car is running, i tested each one last night.. What no one seems to know is if they can SOMETIMES work and SOMETIMES not...

Cliokhunk: yep, will be giving that a shot soon... and thanks yes it really is nuts when running properly

Waitey: cheers for that - do you think that Walbro pump i posted on the past page would do the trick?(http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310041821203&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT).. I believe its what Matt Black used on his Clio TT but that was running more power than mine... Would fitting this new pump put all the mapping out of bonk?

Bill over on the VAG forums said that the fuel pump theory is plausible, and that i would need to use an in car wideband afr guage, will confirm if the fueling is going to pot

CrazyCup: Getting back to you mate - Yes it has a 3bar fuel regulator on the rail

 

[T.Trophy]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Tbh it definatley sounds like the fuel pump isn't up to the job, when i was doing mine the info i had was the pump was only good for 240-250 bhp. On the dyno you'll probably find that you were only doing short stints of wide open throttle where as out on the road your putting your foot down and going through the gears and obviously spending longer with your foot down.

I've got the whalbro uprated pump and using a 3 bar reg it's flowing enough for 340 bhp so at least if you invest in that you know it will be good for the future upgrades.

The fuel issues in right hand bends is something I suffered with at Mallory a couple of weeks ago going round gerrards (a long right hand bend for those who don't know it) but basically the oe sender/pump unit base acts as a swirl pot now the more powerful and faster you fuel pump works then obviously the faster you can empty the small reserve of fuel in there when all the fuel sloshes across to the otherside of the tank (probably why Foxy's only suffering now by upgrading to a 172 pump in comparison to his old pump). Obviously when the tank is over half full you won't get this issue only when the fuel is low.

HTH

 

[f0xy]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Its very wierd, mine was spot on at mallory and it was the 172 pump too, first time its ever happened yesterday at Oulton too! Il have to look into it

 

[T.Trophy]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

You'll probably find you weren't cornering quite as hard at Mallory with it being soaking when we were there. But as mentioned earlier try different fuel levels and a few laps of a largish roundabout, I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it quick enough

 

[Floodie]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

... try different fuel levels and a few laps of a largish roundabout, I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it quick enough

haha yeh or the M25>M3 south sweeping righthander at 50mph+ and that'll do the trick for sure

 

[Floodie]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Right, fuel pump ordered, will be getting it end of next week argh...ah well.

In the mean time, i want to do some other odds and sods this weekend which includes a bit of outstanding wiring - There is a small (couple of inch cubed) white plastic square within the engine fuse box, does any one have or know the pin outs for it? need to know which ones are the Water temp and rev counter...

Cheers

 

[Floodie]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Well - Me thinking the fuel pump upgrade will be the last of my problems eh...

Realised from the rolling road sesh that i had 2 oil leaks.... 1 seemed fine and a case of the dipstick being mullered and oil being spat out of it.. sorted this by buying a new plastic dipstick housing and installing that... I thought the 2nd leak was todo with the gearbox.. For the last few miles of the last time i drove her it would jump out of 5th every so often, and then start to be difficult to put into gear.. typical examples of gearbox dying.... Combine this to the slight oil leak when being mapped i think ive a big problem with the gearbox..

Wanted to source the leak AND see how much (if any) oil is left in the box so bought 2 litres of good gearbox oil jacked her up, undid the filler, then undid the dump and suprise suprise only about a cup full of oil came out, probably just over half a litre!.. realise that i defo have a leak, and that its not an engine problem which i suppose is the better of 2 evils..

Filled her up with a litre to source where the leak is coming from, and it seems to be where the gearbox mates to the engine...i think - so took a piccy, would someone just confirm?.. possibly a gasket or something gone?.. but it was pouring and not dripping.. took a few mins for the oil to come out.

 

[Paddy_g46]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

I am pretty sure there shouldn't be any oil coming out from/anywhere near where the engine and gearbox join! :S

 

[Floodie]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

hehe you dont say! ...

im thinking its the seal on the input shaft(but would it leak THAT bad if its that?), or worse the final drive rivets failed or rollpin... either way its gearbox off jobbie... FLAN!!!!, that spare o2j you were talking about?

 

[FlansS14]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

hehe you dont say! ...

im thinking its the seal on the input shaft(but would it leak THAT bad if its that?), or worse the final drive rivets failed or rollpin...

who told you that? you dont even know what a final drive is lol

that dont look cool!! weird how its gone like that...although that was the oringinal box that you know who sourced?

must have blowd a seal....just hope it hasnt caped the clutch in oil!!!!

the gay thing is its n engine out job!! gay bar!!

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

it won't be an input shaft seal, well, not just sat there anyway, it's way above the oil level.

 

[stu8v]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Tbh it definatley sounds like the fuel pump isn't up to the job, when i was doing mine the info i had was the pump was only good for 240-250 bhp. On the dyno you'll probably find that you were only doing short stints of wide open throttle where as out on the road your putting your foot down and going through the gears and obviously spending longer with your foot down.

I've got the whalbro uprated pump and using a 3 bar reg it's flowing enough for 340 bhp so at least if you invest in that you know it will be good for the future upgrades.

The fuel issues in right hand bends is something I suffered with at Mallory a couple of weeks ago going round gerrards (a long right hand bend for those who don't know it) but basically the oe sender/pump unit base acts as a swirl pot now the more powerful and faster you fuel pump works then obviously the faster you can empty the small reserve of fuel in there when all the fuel sloshes across to the otherside of the tank (probably why Foxy's only suffering now by upgrading to a 172 pump in comparison to his old pump). Obviously when the tank is over half full you won't get this issue only when the fuel is low.

HTH

Sounds more like fuel surge than fuel pump problems, my Impreza suffered the same until i fitted an external pump and swirl pot.

 

[Floodie]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Flan: After a whole day of research im pretty clued up on the damn things now mate - but was told this from people on the VAG forums dude plus the following :

"You should be able to work out where the oil is coming from fairly easily, the clutch should be ok... i had a hole in my gearbox casing recently which dumped oil all over the clutch, i cleaned it down with some solvent cleaner (or brake cleaner) and altho it slipped for the first 100ish miles it's been fine ever since, i've also been told washing up liquid and water mixed is good for cleaning oil from clutches.

Unfortunately there is a couple of common faults with the Diff on O2J box's that often cause punctured casings, first is the final drive gear rivets failing (these can be replaced with ARP bolts), and the other is the roll pin which holds the Cross Shaft which the spider gears run on in place shears, causing the cross shaft to be able to move... puncturing the box... (spider gears and cross shafts can also fail, but not that common on the variant of the o2j fitted to most 1.8T engines, which have better quality diff gears and a thicker cross shaft).

Best thing is to get the box off and investigate."

Yeh and i was hoping i would be driving it after fitting the uprated pump later this week too...

I'll give you a buzz tomorrow mate as the crap signal around here has prevented me doing it today but obviously ill sort you out with the cash for your time if you would be kind enough (again) to give it a go one sat or sun that you have free as your the only one i trust with the car really (pm / txt me if you like)

I actually dont think im ever destined to drive this car

 

[FlansS14]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

sod it if the casing is blown just drive it to mine... the box is fooked anyways.. lol

but check where its coming from first...allthough either way its engine out n box off (what a fookin mission)

you need to get the propper vw gearbox oil when we fill it back up! and you could do with a new pair of renault wheel hub nuts (your ment to replace them when u remove them)

there is n inspection plate near the flywheel.... see if you can find where the "fail" is.

Stu

 

[Floodie]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Ha - do you think the casing is definately gone then mate? - The oil is coming exactly from that bit in the pic, cant see any holes in the casing anywhere if that helps.

tbh i dont think it would get to yours, 65mile away and it would probably chuck that oil out in tops of 25 mins... hmm

ok ill get onto the oil and wheel hub nuts.

Re: inspection plate - do you mean looking in from the top, and removing that plastic bung i sent you a picture of because you can see the flywheel once thats removed...

 

[Floodie]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Thinking about it, ive home start, i'll RAC it....

 

[FlansS14]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Thinking about it, ive home start, i'll RAC it....

how? they return you home? lol

aint there a call out fee?

just run it dry.... will be jokes

 

[Floodie]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

haha - no you little fart "Home start" is an add on on my policy - takes you almost where you want within reason... I went to use them the other week to take to edge exhausts but because i didnt have tax they couldnt!!..

Run it dry??... id like to preserve the clutch in case the thing totally exploded ... how about i go to W.H.Smiths and fill the hole with blu-tack and prit-stick eh?

 

[FlansS14]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

at least the underneith of your car wont rust!! i bet its capped in stinky gearbox oil!!

Right... might be able to tap it up this sunday.... gonna be a fookin long day so pack ur sarnies coz well be working through lunch ... well you will ill be chillin

 

[Floodie]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

haha - THIS sunday? excellent... it is going to be a RIGHT mission getting her there... im foreseeing 4 gearbox oil fill ups - plus the 2Litres i need to fill the new box with! christ thats alot of money on oil! doh..

Going to be interesting filling the gearbox oil on the hardshoulder with the ol' piece of hosepipe and funnel

What time would you want me there dude?.. im fine to leave as early as 6 to get there for 8 or whenever really... And dont worry, you can chill all you want, ill be your b!tch for the day haha... Actually be great seeing how to take out the engine etc and put it all back tbh

 

[Floodie]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

.. Just ordered 2 new wheel hub nuts too

 

[Big_Steve_T]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Sorry to hear the latest Clio to join the 1.8T Club is being a bugger! I too was delighted with Dave Walker at Emerald when I took my (Flan's) MK1 Valver TT back their for Mapping when I got it & re-did all the looms etc.

I'm also surprised to hear your having issues with the old 02j Gerabox, as you guys will know Scoff grafted one onto his Turbo'd 172 as the Renault Gearbox was no good with 400+ BHP!

My car starts to play up on corners when the fuel gets below 1/4 of a tank but when the tank's full it's all ok? Have you thought of changing to one coil pack like on my car? That's running 246BHP & no individual coilpack issues? A set of Golf 16v GTI Sparkplug Leads will fit straight on!

 

[Floodie]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Hi steve - Yes im hoping it was just on its last legs and the Rolling road killed it... Ive just bought £50 worth of oil and prepped the car for its 60 mile trip to Flans tomorrow morning with a piece of hose it the gearbox oil filler gapped with metal putty running to the top of the engine bay so its easy to pull over and refill every 20 miles.... everything is crossed that this duffer box gets me there...

Funny you should say that about the coil packs as Dave recommended that too.. think ill seriously look into it, cheers, really helpful.. And good to hear you also have issues with fuel surge too... I had a new Walbro pump delivered the other which is being fitted tomorrow too.. maybe that could help...

 

[Floodie]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Right - simply not had time recently to add an update but a big one is due!.

Managed to get the car to Flans with a dead gearbox, stopping a few times on the M25 filling up the box as we go.. just about got there when something went just yards from his.. ! lucky.

Started at about 9am and after a little while she was ready to take the engine and box out (looking in a sorry state!) :

After the box was taken off the engine the problem soon became obvious.... A bolt had sheared and punctured a hole :

Replaced with a new 02j box and got everything back in by 6ish.. bloody good going, Flan dont mess around, legend




Then it was time to work on the juddering problem that i had which couldve been many things.. but after advice from many people on here (thanks!) we started work on replacing the "weak" clio 172 fuel pump and installing the new Walbro fuel pump which is apparently good for over 400 brake so thats me future proofed i guess :

Fired her up, and perfect!!... no problems at all!! no juddering... the fuel pump WAS the problem.....what a drive home!.. amazing (even though it was only low boost and 240 brake).


After driving for a few minutes though would hear just a single "pop" from the engine bay... Looked under the bonnet and coil pack 2 kept popping up!... wierd. Seems to be a common problem, and due to a build up of gasses/pressure/what ever... After talking to Bill @ Badger 5 he suggested the way to fix it was to cut notches all the way up the coil pack to allow the gas to release - which i did, and hey presto it worked fine :

After this it was time to FINALLY fit the carbon splitter that i bought years ago!!..

And finally an almost finished picture - still a few bits to do but its ALMOST there!!.... FINALLY!

Cheers

 

[JonniP]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

looks awesome. hope it doesnt give you anymore problems

 

[Daz.]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

standard grille dammit!

 

[Gray]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Bloody good going with swapping the box over and the other parts in one day!!

 

[Paddy_g46]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

So the m25 is covered in how many litres of gearbox oil now? lol

 

[Floodie]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

thanks all

Daz: Yeh i know i know! - im 50/50 on it

Gray: mmm, impressive stuff by Flan.. i was just his helper that day, passing, lifting etc

Pat: unfortunately yes!... there is 2 litres spread ALL over a total of 50 miles of the M3, M25 and M1 combined!!.. be very VERY careful

 

[Gt rob]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Why not a megane turbo engine? Reckon you could fit one in?

 

[Cro]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Awesome job mate, really really impressed with the work

 

[Gray]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Why not a megane turbo engine? Reckon you could fit one in?

Because its still a Renault engine? LOL

 

[Floodie]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

^^ True, plus if i had gone that route people may then argue why not just turbo the 172 lump.. although, isnt the Meggy gearbox bigger/stronger which is a plus? but isnt it also TOO big and the main problem when putting the megane lump in the 1*2. Thats why i would cant use the 6 speed VAG box as its just too big, which is a shame

 

[DrewBear11]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

So once this is all sorted what sort of performance figures are you looking at ?
gonna be a beast

 

[FlansS14]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Good skills Dave... i could not have dont it without your spanner passing skills lol

thank fook she's fixed... i wouldnt bother getting a RR done untill you check out them injector n what size they are. Might be worth going back for a RR session and upping the fuel pressure to 4bar (only a new FPR in the end of the rail)... but ask dave... remember i was at 97% cycle duty at 279bhp (on a cold day!)

people do put Revo chips on there TT's and go to 280-290bhp but thats why the turbos all fail as its just to lean (not enough fuel)

id run the 240 for now..its a true 240 (Daves Rollers read low) its not a forum 240bhp that 172's get with a filter, decat and super chip

 

[Gray]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Good skills Dave... i could not have dont it without your spanner passing skills lol

thank fook she's fixed... i wouldnt bother getting a RR done untill you check out them injector n what size they are. Might be worth going back for a RR session and upping the fuel pressure to 4bar (only a new FPR in the end of the rail)... but ask dave... remember i was at 97% cycle duty at 279bhp (on a cold day!)

people do put Revo chips on there TT's and go to 280-290bhp but thats why the turbos all fail as its just to lean (not enough fuel)

id run the 240 for now..its a true 240 (Daves Rollers read low) its not a forum 240bhp that 172's get with a filter, decat and super chip

AND silvervision bulbs

 

[matt|H]

Floodie just picked some bits up from me and have to say, this car looks and sounds very mean! Real shame about the weather as I would have loved to have a ride! Absolutely love turbo chatter and coming from a Clio... Wow!

Might have to pop along to some meets in the near future and have a nosey (if you go to any that is!).

 

[Floodie]

Re: Clio TT (172 cup)

Flan: yep will take your advice on board and talk to dave about upping the fuel pressure... its just nuts as it is! god knows what it will be like with an extre 30brake.... 2nd gear is SLIGHTLY starting to grip again, clutch wise... was worrying that the remnants of the oil is taking slightly longer than i thought to clear... although, it could be the wheels spinning up as i really need to change the tyres!!... im changing the tyres v soon which should sort it, but if not, im wondering how long it will take for the oil to burn off that leaked onto the clutch. Maybe its absorbed loads of it but its been about 300 miles now so hopefully gone soon...

Took her out yesterday, 1st time in the wet.. Jesus christ, not doing that again - 4th and 5th then planting foot to the floor on the motorway was certainly interesting, released after a couple of seconds

Matt: yeh, good seeing you chap. Shame i couldnt take you out, didnt want to risk it just yet in that weather!