BenR or HK Clioman

[HongKongClioman]

For those who passed their driving test in a golf GTi Mk I or XR3 (like myself), they know what you are talking about and will agree that the 172 is a good choice, but talk to the average buyers, especially in HK. You are talking to the wall.

Anyway, u should try the new alfa, too. Not as quick as the 172, but good fun, especially the selespeed box. Dont know how quick you can do a declutch, but that little box can do a double declutch within a second, just voom, voom. Really impressive, that allows one to brake really late. Thibnk u will enjoy it as much as I have.

Cheers

 

[cyue005]

i m lookin forward for a Selespeed GTA see if there is a diff between manual n seles.... manual was very good. ben i will try huh... Tony i still think the service they gave u was utter crap first he shouldnt be late second he promised u a JTS not a freakin 147 that makes me feel they have no intention.

 

[HongKongClioman]

The traffic yesterday was really bad. That might tbe the reason for being late. I dont want to second guess whether he had intention or not. Anyway, I did enjoy the test drive very much. A big thank to you.

Cheers

 

[cyue005]

my pleasure mate... no post lately coz i m sick stayin at home . I bought an Option mag yesterday I saw someones phase 1 Clio 172 did the 0-100km run he didnt have mod except for spark coils n intake n he got 7.04 not bad.

he also installed Tar Ox brake discs... ben are these any good?

 

[HongKongClioman]

We once played with an AP22. The quickest was a mark I. Reached 100km within 7 sec. That car was fitted with R tires, intake, exhaust...modified. Ahh, no spare, too.

 

[cyue005]

i will try to do one of those test on a phase 2 with chip remapped, exhaust n intake see if it will make any difference

 

[BenR]

i did it in my car with disppointing results........

but i dont think teh AP was setup near correctly at all. no accurate mass, CoD, ratios, etc etc etc......and got a rough 8 secs.....

but in the drag race with billys clio, i was never behind it and actually amnaged a better start than him.......despite his tyres.....but once up to about 100kph he starts moving a way......

 

[HongKongClioman]

You can download those setup figures from here in this site.

Only problem we have in HK is to find an empty road.

 

[cyue005]

Ben i notice a set of Tar Ox (same as stock size) brake disc going ofr around 1600 new (slotted i think or laser slotted ) any good? god those braised hoses are EXPENSIVE!! 1200 far out.

Yeh u better come back earlier bro n have some fun. hey ben do u know if Kartin mall still got that Sunday 2 hour endurance race? if so u reckon u want to do it? ahha maybe even hook us up with "cheaper" deal.

Tony i thinki might get one of those HKS (or greddy cant remember) digital counter that can log time n stuff they seem much easier to use.

Would those SFAC work on 172 since its got variable intake? but i guess i wont need it if i remap huh.
nice to start postin again sick like hell a few days ago n gf givin me hell as well.

Tony hows it goin r u in for the Opel? i heard there is a 2.2L Turbo Zafria that sounds like a MPV shuttle ahha.

Ben any comments on those Peugeot 206 180GTis? i know they r not out but u might have gotten some info on those things.

Hey Macau trip sounds phat. ! i m crap at golf still practicin at the drivin range cant keep my elbow straight when i strike

 

[HongKongClioman]

Contract not yet signed, but opel wins it 99.99% sure. The offers on the table are:

For a 2001 Thai made Zafira 2.2: Price cut from $183k to $149k; first year lic ($5.9K) plus leather interior ($9k options) included; also six service coupons ($2k each); they value my 164 @ $12k as a trade-in.

For a 2002 German made Omega 2.2: list price: $218k, lic ($5.9k) excluded and insurance ($13k) included, plus $35k trade-in price for the 164. Six service coupons as well. Seems that they want me to take the omega more than the Zafira. Strange.

The 0.01% arose as I saw an advertisement on todays paper, there was a 2001 156 wagon selespeed. Asked $180k, warranty will not expire till April 04. Sounds interesting, doesnt it, will see if the guy like a 164.

 

[HongKongClioman]

Guys,

this is really amazing. The opel guy called me a few minutes ago, making me another offer for the omega. He further cut another $6k from his earlier offer, AND said that I could keep my alfa after the trade-in. They decided to give the alfa to me as a gift. Can you believe that?

This indicates two things: 1) they are very desperate to get rid of their omega; and 2) no one really wants my alfa. Sigh.

It is now really a buyer market.

Cheers

Tony

 

[BenR]

thats bonkers.......pure bonkers.....dunno how other people will compete.

JUST DONT CRASH IN IT! haha

anyhow, dunno about karting amll, not been there for ages......not too exciting.

the 180 gtis......thre a bit late arent they!!!!! and i dont think price will be too competitive, since its a new car and development cost have to be paid back quickly as the 206 shape is now very old........and girly!

what is sfac? and the clio has VVt on teh inlt camshaft only not a variable inlet, or is the anaguage barries cropping up again.

tony.....give me a day or 2, i will see if we can even get close with the laguna.......

well, talk later...again!

 

[HongKongClioman]

Went to the showroom with my check book last night. But the green Zafira had gone, only blue and white were left. Not too sure about the colour. Took the omega out for a test drive. Nothing special, except that it was very comfortable and much better made than the Zafira. Left the showroom undecided.

If you were me, which one would you choose? a german made omega 2.2. which spec list is as long as the Long River; or a thai made, very competent and practical Zafira? The price difference between the two is now about $30k. Making it a very difficult decision.

by comparison, theres not much difference between the omega and the laguna in terms of performance and spec. The omega is more roomy and also fitted with a built-in phone and a Bose sound system (similar to the one fitted in the new 156) but lacks the curtain bags. hate to say this, but have to confess that ti cannt see the laguna has any chance. Another worse news for you, Ben. The offer they are now giving me will become official and be offered to all after the xmas. Was told that there were too many in the warehouse. Better spend more time to work out the RSR deal than the laguna, that offers a better chance.

BTW, I talked to Wilman last night, hoping that he might want my 164. he told me I was his last alfa customer, all others had already scapped theirs. The result was disappointing, of course. However, he did mention that the K-tec was just too loud, even for him. He preferred the cup exhaust and other. Trust he had told you already. He also made some comments on your colleagues at Jebsen. I did feel that he was a little frustrated by the lack of progress from your side. Assured him that you would be back soon and would hopefully the RSR project could then be shifted up a gear or two. Wish u luck.

 

[HongKongClioman]

Guys,

This is the final chapter. While I was waiting for your wisdom, the opel guy called. My counter offer was accepted by their manager, but since it was below their bottom line, they need the approval from their MD. But they were so confident that they said the contract would be ready for signature by tonight.

The final deal is like this: $180k for a 2002 German made omega 2.2 elegance, lic and six service coupons included. Trade-in is not required, so if ben you need a good V6 for testing different ideas, do call me.

Another unbelievable offer is from Orix, the financial company. They promised if I financed the new omega with their loan, they would offer me 60% NCB on the Omega. Given that my 60% NCB has already been locked up with the clio, i should have to pay some $13k for insurance, Orixs offer cuts the bill down to just $5k. Another $8k saving. This is really the buyers market.

Hope I have made the right choice.

Cheers

Tony

 

[cyue005]

sorry busy this mornin. wow sounds like a good deal. i guess its better than havin nothin haha. i actually posted last nite but it didnt turn out !

ben no language barrier just my crap info ahha i wasnt sure if it was variable or VVT

SFAC is from Greddy or HKS that can tune ur fuel n air ratio n stuff .. also there is one for Vtec system.... ben can u explain the idfference between VVT n Vtec?

Tony so a new toy n also can keep ur current... do somethin reallllly stupid withi t hahaha actually give it to Ben ur wish will come true... NOS Alfa? ahha

 

[HongKongClioman]

The new car is for the mrs. 144 bhp for a car that is over 1600kg, not my cup of tea, thank you. But being a passenger, a different story. Seats are as big as a sitting room sofa, excellent Bose sound system, electronic this and that. Checked the carsurvey, 4car...various website, all said good things about it. Hence the decision.

Contract will be signed later tonight. My only worry now is that the Opel dealer seems to be in a very desperate position to dump their cars, will/can they survive long enough to honour their three years warranty? Buying something cheap isnt as easy as being seen.

 

[cyue005]

perhaps they haevnt met their monthly quota? or their dealership is on the wire? i dont know .... i dont think anythin drastic is goin on with Opel themselves or to the car. Oh well ur wife is goin to like it tons of toys
Tony have u mod ur 172 so far?

I think the car u picked is a pretty good choice u know family can go out even heaps of room to bring along a few friends?

I dont think i will waste any money on my Clios sound system .. i had such a huge thought about it but now I think i will just do the mechanic side of things first i have to say it again... braid hoses are very v.v.v..expensive...

 

[HongKongClioman]

No modification yet. I only trust one man in HK for modification, and Ben is working with him on the RSR kit. Hope that Ben can finalise the details this time. When u visit HK again next summer, hopefully you will see a 185 bhp red clio voom vooming along tai hang road every sunday morning. heehee.

Put my signature down on the temp contract tonight and noted that each service coupon was priced at $3400. six coupons and first year lic means a further $26k discount (i.e. Compared to the list price of $238K, I am asking them to sell me one $154k, about $10k more than the corolla price). No wonder they wanted their MD to sign the contract personally.

 

[cyue005]

spotted another phase 1 plate is KK5.... cant remember outside Pak Guy.

Tony where abouts is ur place? I m on "sarn gon " street the one before HK jockey club... oh yeh any of u Jockey Club house member if so u want to pop up there for a drink?

BEn hurry up n come back n give me the freak ride me bored already haha i m waitin for pay day to go shoppin

Tony is ur one phase 2 ? ..... stupid quesiton must be i cant think of a phase 1 red haha. Is the Clio ur daily transport? or is it the 164? coz i still havent seen u yet.... I think i saw Leon Lai whihle i was waitin for the mini bus hes assistant was drivin his S6.... speakin of S6 i drove it once i quite liked it but ahha i still think Audis cars are a bit.......... detached to the driver .... i prefer GTA or Clio ... more "in ur face" rather than sittin on a V8 340hp but not really connected..... also saw a RS6 yeh only 4 in HK ... rich ... i want one such a nasty nasty car 1350000 hk Dollars !!...... Can u guys all chip in n give it to me as Xmas present please? haha

 

[BenR]

Tony, just doen some research and teh news is not good for you im afraid. Forefront the Agents for Opel are about to give up and are clearing stock, the Omega is definitely a slow mover and old stock. about to throw in the towel...oh well, i thought that offer was too good to be true.

anyway, our will be along these line for the new megane.

The Megane 2.0 5dr Auto (Tiptronic) Skyroof, Leather, auto aircon, etc is
expected to
be $155k.
Just won the European Car of the Year 2003 by 50 magazines.
Will sell on just being a New Model and greatly noticeable.

Laguna II 2.0 5dr Saloon (Tiptronic) Retail $189,000. We offer $10,000 being
Licence
fee $6000 + $4000 cash for Service Credit. (Or just trade-in or straight cash,
if you
think best.

so, any of it sound tempting?


as for the RSR conversion, i have had no time at all here, and its the least of my worries right now as its basically sorted but we just need to get it out there, as you saw, people, well otehr clio owners want everybody else to try it out and test it, buy it etc etc....then slowly walk away as you start throwing prices out........loyalty is not common in HK, and hard work is rarely repayed......

i have talked to K-tec and they have gone along with me to make the system quieter by modding the centre silencer.....so that solves that....but i like the rally car noise from it anyway.

 

[BenR]

ching, teh VVT system on teh clio is very simple and basically does nothing. its a simple cam phasing device which advances the inlet cam a certain amount of degrees when a 12V current is applied to the plunger. this allows oil pressure to move the cam.

the Vtec system on teh otehr hand is very clever and a great device. initially there was a 2 stage VTEC on older hondas now there is a 3 stage as on teh civic type R.

basically, instead of 2 cam lobes on teh inlet side (one for each valve) the vtec system employs 3 lobes for the 2 inlet valves. each witha varying degree of wildness, there is a mild lobe for low rpm and pootling, a medium lobe and a wild race lobe. the complex follwer arrancement uses oil pressure to switch from which lobe is uses. at low rpms, teh oil presure is low and although all 3 followers are tracing the 3 lobes, only the mild and medium lobes actually lift the inlet valves by however much the profile dictates. then, as rpm and oil pressure rises, the mild lobe foller is locked witha pin onto the profile of teh medium lobe, hence the inlets are now both on teh medium lobe as opposed to one on the medium and one on the mild. when high rp is reached, oil pressure lockes both followers of teh medium and mild lobe onto the sigle follower of teh wild race lobe in teh centre to teh 2 other lobes, this then makes that manic rush up to 9000rpm or whatever it does......

but the toyota VVTL-i is probably teh best and one fo teh most complicated systems allowing phasing (as in teh clio) and cam changing (in teh type R).

but tehre are many different designs like rovers VVT -i, BMWs double vanos etc etc, porsches vario cam.

anyway, a VTEC controller wont work and its not worth it, and teh A/f ratio changer is a waste of time as it operates around stoichiometric anyway.....

 

[cyue005]

haha cheers that solves all the problems ... i never believe in those things but they do look cool dont they

Hey wut about a good set of brake discs on 172? any recommendation?

u still headin back on 20th? I think Tony might have signed the contract last nite

 

[HongKongClioman]

Ching(s) (a new name I invented for you two, heehee),

The package for the new megane is very attractive. If the opel returns my check this afternoon and cancels the contract, will wait for it. The laguna, while its spec is excellent but there is not enough headroom at the back, and can only sit two ppl, not three.

the offer from opel does seem to be too good to be true. I share your view that they are dumping their cars and would say goodbye to the market very soon. I think I am going to take this risk, even if they do go under and cant honour the service coupons, the cost of the big omega would become $174k instead of $154k. Still a very good price.

I think I will stick to my plan to use the cup exhaust instead of the K-tec. Afterall, I am not as young as you are and need to look after my body, including my ears, not to mention that some of my neighbours are policemen and judges, dont want to wake them up early in the morning. Do let me know once you sort out the warranty details.

No need to be too upset by the response from other clio guys. At least, you have my red clio still on the waiting list. Oh, and also that of ivan. Will see if I can find you more buyers for the turbo megane.

I live in Mount Butler, not far from you, yue. Not a JC member, still looking for a voting member to introduce me. Not too sure if I can afford the entrance fee, though. But I am a member of the HKFC. Hence, can play golf in Macau. What to have drinks in the HKFC? Call me.

Use public transport most of the time, hence only clocked 9000 km by now. Just give me a wave if you spot me.

Cheers.

 

[cyue005]

i tend to see all the silver ones and one black 172.. havent seen any non 172 haha which is a good thing i guess? in some way.

Whats this about Cup exhaust ? I havent heard of them my dealer offer me a remus ... should i take it ?

I have this sudden urge that i must test a S4 when i go back ahha i dot know why.... but i think i m still in love with it haha

 

[HongKongClioman]

That fxxking MD has not yet decided whether to accept my terms. Seems that he, too is not too sure. Have just threatened the sales that the temp contract would be considered cancelled if still no word is heard from them by tomorrow noon.

 

[cyue005]

good on u dont act desparate if they sense u r desparate they wont do any deal. I was just checkin out K-tecracing.com.. those braid hoses are 40 pounds a set ... so much cheaper than 1200hk dollars (is it ? foreign exchange.. 40x3 =120 nz X4 = 480HK) might do some mail order... but still want to buy a set of brake discs

 

[cyue005]

Ben is it possible (i dont knwo at all thats why i m askin u ahha) is it possible to swap the front brake discs to the back? like runnin 280 n 280 or is that utter stupid haha i think its utter stupid

 

[cyue005]

Ben another thing i m thinkin about buyin some PIAA or "white lights" so they will look more similar to the Xenon.. what size are they I think there are 2 pairs i have to get ... are they H4s? ... wut about the dimmer light what size are they n the wattage...... u recommend changin the fog to white as well? ahha i will have a freaky bright white show at nite time to take on those bloody Audi "S" they have freakin bright xenons!!

 

[cyue005]

Tony u can do drinks at HKFC i can do drinks at HKJC see where suits us the most when ben comes home

 

[BenR]

and i can do drink at teh HKCC haha!

anyway, the lights on the 172 are xenon, or is yours the MK1?

if so, i thought high voltage PIAA bulbs were illegal........best check with the DVLA or similar first.

The Cup exahust, is just another thing to add really........and it all comes down to final decisions.

the braided hoses from K-tec i can get easily as theya re one of our suppluiers for exhausts, big brake kits, pads, strut braces etc etc....adn about as good as you can get on a clio.

i wouldnt botehr with braided hoses from HK manufacture, i wouldn touch HK manufacture anything.....they just dont have a clue.

is your 172 in HK or NZ?

oh, and no you cant change the brake discs over...thats just silly as you said.....besides, you dont really need to cahnge the rears as they do about 10% of the total braking. new discs alone wont do anything for braking, its teh pads that make teh difference..... i would go for ferodo, mintex or pagid......

 

[BenR]

oh, tony.........

as always,your moolah....but if you do buy, and they go under, where do you get service and spare parts? its gonna be expensive, of course i can help being in teh UK and stuff.......but a thai made zafira.......ho hum, dunno if they will be the same as the zafira in the UK.

is it teh new omega or the old one? as it guzzles fuel like nothing...especially the 2ltr......my taxi dude in the UK has one....not bad......but then again, price is a determinating factor these days aint it.

 

[HongKongClioman]

Ben,

No need to worry about spare parts, my relatives in Bangkok confirmed that there was a GM factory there, and they could get me parts easily (even freely, we are talking Bangkok here, if know the right ppl, you get whatever you want).

The omega is the OLD model of course, $154k, corolla price. what more one can ask. should be the last batch that left the factory. New model will roll out early next year.

They promised to give me a reply last night, then the manager said as the deal would involve different departments, so they need more time. Read from the paper this morning, knowing that they are going to have a promotion show in Shatin. I suspect they would wait and see the response before deciding whether to accept or reject my offer. Their position, however, is weakening, as the others are also putting more afford to clear their stock, including the Mazada 6 and Nissan Primera. It is a buyers market.

Oh, I reced two calls for my 164. Not bad, one will come for a test drive tomorrow. Wish me luck.

 

[cyue005]

hey ben my clio is in NZ ..... its a phase 2...but u know the head lamps they r not all xenons on the xenon bulb is u have the indicator lights n a low dim... i want to swap the low dims n whatever to "white" lookin lights too so i want to know the size of them

will those braid hoses screwup my warranty? i hope u will know if not r u anywhere close to K tec in UK? how about those Ecotek thing any comment? braid hoses are 39 pounds which is around 500 hk but in hk OMP braid are 1200 at least... crazy! Would u also recomend a FSE power boost valve

 

[BenR]

FSE wont work on the non return fuel system in the clio, and its not such a good idea anyway. Ktec can ship to HK.....ecotek is a waste of money.....

 

[cyue005]

ben my man can u tell me all the bulb sizes which are installed in to the Phase 2 172 head lamp set? (exclude the xenon bulb) and the wattage of the bulbs please? please??? please !!!

Tony u still op for the opel? or r u havin doubts now hehe u ever tried the 3.0L laguna its pretty good i tell u

 

[HongKongClioman]

Guys,

While I thought the last chapter would be the final one, reality is far from that. It seems that my omega offer was too hard to swallow, the opel ppl were still undecided. told them that today 5:30 would be the deadline, either return my check or a completed contract. They have one more afternoon.

Over the weekend, revisited several showrooms, mazda said they would consider accepting my alfa as trade-in for their Mazda 6. However, no big discount was offered, but they would throw in two free services, a free spoiler, leather interior (locally fitted) and parking senor...The volvo boys were also working hard, they knocked the price of their 2003 v40 from 230k to $180k and said would also consider paying $15k for my alfa. Not bad.

All of a sudden, my alfa becomes a popular trade-in. if the omega deal cannot be competed, more than likely would either take the mazda or v40.

The laguna 3.0 offers good value for money, but the wife wants a backbench that can sit three, so laguna is definately out.

 

[HongKongClioman]

Guys,

here is the latest position. The OPEL ppl have finally agreed to GIVE. And I agree to TAKE.

The deal is as follows:

$177k for the car, all options including a Bose sound system (seven speakers) and an in-car GSM phone; and

three years warranty AND free services (parts and labour). The free services worth about $20k to the customer but just $10k to the company.

If they can survive the next three years, I have a winner.

My next task is to sell my alfa. The bottom line is to scrap the car and obtain $5k refund from the Government and the insurance for its remaining lic and policy. Wish me luck.

Cheers

 

[cyue005]

haha good luck buyin car can be hell ! good u didnt take V40.... Old car torque steer ... if u can afford S60 defo not S40 or wutever.

I m after some aftermarket light bulb for the phase 2 (not the xenons) but tryin to find some bulbs that will match its colour u know the size for them? i think i m goin to walk oer to Renault now n ask coz also considerin lookin to buy one in HK for usage

 

[HongKongClioman]

Contract signed.

No idea about the size of the light bulbs, can check the handbook tomorrow. Stay in touch.

Cheers

 

[BenR]

no idea about bulbs tomorrow, but each countru has its max wattage ratings allowed for dipped and main beams, so chack before you buy or its a hefty fine....i have never looked at the bulbs in the 172, but they aint H4 as they are xenon.

well, glad you finally signed a contract tony!!!! you are the hardest shopper around!........might be a good thing we didnt do business as friendship and hard car sales dont go hand in hand too well hahaha.

as for the bose sound system, dont be offended, but also, dont be surprised to find out its ordinary paper cones to which OPEL (GM) have bought the name BOSE to put on their speakers........nothing fancy. just like the old 172 has VVT, although it does nothing....you will make 172bhp with it off. haha.....all sales pointers nowadays.

also, how does the laguna not have enough room in teh back.......you must have some very large friends! i got my whole GFs family in there (5) and theya re scottish......i.e. no small....haha