Get it on the ground roll it outside, stand back and look how much work has gone into this!
Then promptly get it into paint!
Then promptly get it into paint!
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RB PH1 172 Rally Car Progress
Too bloody much for a Renault Clio :weary:😂 Cheers mate
Alex painted our wing mirrors in a subaru white that was laying around in a spray can yesterday along with spraying the mirror surrounds black. Really happy with how these look now!
Also fitted a set of new plugs. Hoping these will make the car run sweeter once we eventually get it started again...
Most importantly however, we've managed to fix the brake pedal travel issue by setting up our balance bar properly and also starting to play with the OBP adjuster which seems to be working great! Can really tell the pedal changes when you adjust it. Will have to put the finishing touches to the brakes when we're driving as it's impossible to set them up otherwise.
Also fitted a set of new plugs. Hoping these will make the car run sweeter once we eventually get it started again...
Most importantly however, we've managed to fix the brake pedal travel issue by setting up our balance bar properly and also starting to play with the OBP adjuster which seems to be working great! Can really tell the pedal changes when you adjust it. Will have to put the finishing touches to the brakes when we're driving as it's impossible to set them up otherwise.
Fixed the starting issue... After literally about 10 hours of tracing wires and trying to figure out what was wrong it turned out to be a broken earth :weary: I absolutely loath wires after owning this car - but at least Chris didn't do anything wrong and was really helpful giving us information as to what our issue may have been; hats off to him.
Now that's all sorted again we need to tidy the loom back up until after this track day where we're either gonna gut it or buy a standalone.
In the meantime while we're still waiting on a date for the respray we've started doing other bits in between helping our friends get ready for the event too.
Put some boot springs on the car today which we'll need to take off again before paint obviously - just wanted the holes drilling out before.
Alex has cleaned all the crap off the rollcage that was left behind from masking it up which now looks 100x better, allowing her to then fit the harnesses too. Still need to adjust the lengths to somewhere near but that's just a little thing :hearteyes:
To cheer ourselves up while the wiring was dead we ordered all the stickers we want going on the car when it's done:tearsofjoy: Most of them are here now and so Alex stuck the first two on the wing mirrors which now look really good too! Can't wait for it to all be done it's gonna look so good everywhere, all the hard work is finally showing.
Now that's all sorted again we need to tidy the loom back up until after this track day where we're either gonna gut it or buy a standalone.
In the meantime while we're still waiting on a date for the respray we've started doing other bits in between helping our friends get ready for the event too.
Put some boot springs on the car today which we'll need to take off again before paint obviously - just wanted the holes drilling out before.
Alex has cleaned all the crap off the rollcage that was left behind from masking it up which now looks 100x better, allowing her to then fit the harnesses too. Still need to adjust the lengths to somewhere near but that's just a little thing :hearteyes:
To cheer ourselves up while the wiring was dead we ordered all the stickers we want going on the car when it's done:tearsofjoy: Most of them are here now and so Alex stuck the first two on the wing mirrors which now look really good too! Can't wait for it to all be done it's gonna look so good everywhere, all the hard work is finally showing.
cliocollins
ClioSport Club Member
ITB's RB & F56 jCW
Coming on well mate. I'm at the finishing stages with stickers too.. Keep up the good progress!
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
Thanks mate!
Here mate :blush:
Thanks!
"Sorry, this seller is on vacation, so this item is unavailable for purchase."
eBay sellers these days......
Haha, I saw that and felt sorry for you:tearsofjoy:
Lots of little bits have been done since the last update just haven't really had time to update due to uni exams and assignments, in-between helping our friend build his car for the event and ours.
We've made a mutual agreement between the 4 of us that we're not going to go to the rally stage on 12th due to multiple reasons that have all came up at the wrong time unfortunately out of our control... And the fact that none of our cars are ready with literally 2 weeks to go. We're all gutted as we've been slaving away for months now and rushing around and looking forward to it for so long. The new plan is to carry on building/repairing them all and hire Curborough out for the day as it's very local to us and will be a good test day for our car before doing a bigger event. After all it could break down after driving a metre as we've never tested any of it!
Anyway...Since the last update:
Last week we also made a purchase after getting bored of waiting for Rimstock for 14 weeks after being quoted 6! And the wheels still not having been even machined
So we cancelled that and paid a bit extra from Tweeks who delivered them next day free of charge... Can't beat that.
The only snag was we had to have black as we refused to pay an extra £150 odd for a different colour - glad we didn't though as they're stunning!
Last night I also spotted a bargain for 6 Direzzas in R1 compound local to us so off we went straight away to buy those
Final thing we did today apart from filler and flat down was put some quick release bumper catches on the front (to drill the holes before paint)
Need to finish rubbing the filler down next to the right shapes and then spray the car so we can build it and get it out ASAP!
We've made a mutual agreement between the 4 of us that we're not going to go to the rally stage on 12th due to multiple reasons that have all came up at the wrong time unfortunately out of our control... And the fact that none of our cars are ready with literally 2 weeks to go. We're all gutted as we've been slaving away for months now and rushing around and looking forward to it for so long. The new plan is to carry on building/repairing them all and hire Curborough out for the day as it's very local to us and will be a good test day for our car before doing a bigger event. After all it could break down after driving a metre as we've never tested any of it!
Anyway...Since the last update:
- Extinguisher is now plumbed in with both nozzles mounted in the engine bay & pull cord connected.
- Since deciding not to do the rally day we've also gutted the engine bay wiring loom to the bare minimum! Interior next.
- Flatted the car down some more for paint and fillered/knocked out any dents.
- Straightened the sill jacking points out, sanded rust to bare metal and primed. (Unfortunately found about a 2" square patch of rot on the sill which we'll repair before painting it - luckily it's not too bad and the only rot on the car!
Last week we also made a purchase after getting bored of waiting for Rimstock for 14 weeks after being quoted 6! And the wheels still not having been even machined
So we cancelled that and paid a bit extra from Tweeks who delivered them next day free of charge... Can't beat that.The only snag was we had to have black as we refused to pay an extra £150 odd for a different colour - glad we didn't though as they're stunning!
Last night I also spotted a bargain for 6 Direzzas in R1 compound local to us so off we went straight away to buy those
Final thing we did today apart from filler and flat down was put some quick release bumper catches on the front (to drill the holes before paint)
Need to finish rubbing the filler down next to the right shapes and then spray the car so we can build it and get it out ASAP!
donnylad
ClioSport Club Member
wheels looks great, I was looking at them yesterday myself. to go white was an extra £100 quid or something so sod that, I take it these are the gloss black?
You have just reminded me my O rings that hold the bumper on are knackered so need to order more!
If you book curborough and have any space depending on the date I might be available to chip in and do some laps, need to get as much practice as possible there for the championship!
You have just reminded me my O rings that hold the bumper on are knackered so need to order more!
If you book curborough and have any space depending on the date I might be available to chip in and do some laps, need to get as much practice as possible there for the championship!
Thankyou, we thought exactly the same haha. They are the gloss black yeah, the pictures on their website make them look dull but as you can see they're quite the opposite!
Will let you know about Curborough sure
Exactly a year ago today we took the car home in the state it was in shown below...
Since then a LOT of hours grafting by a lot of people have all come together today to get it to look like this...
Looking back I can't even believe it's the same car it's actually unreal? So glad we can begin building the car again now fully to completion now. Still a lot of work needed but it's a hell of a step forward!
While it was being sprayed for us I refurbed the headlights as they were yellowed and would ruin the look of the new paint. Pic below shows a before and after.
Since then a LOT of hours grafting by a lot of people have all come together today to get it to look like this...
Looking back I can't even believe it's the same car it's actually unreal? So glad we can begin building the car again now fully to completion now. Still a lot of work needed but it's a hell of a step forward!
While it was being sprayed for us I refurbed the headlights as they were yellowed and would ruin the look of the new paint. Pic below shows a before and after.
RuskiWeldFab
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 172, RS4 B7
Funny enough got my car almost exactly a year ago myself!! Good progress is very satisfying! Good work mate! Love the colour!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Brake cooling ducts are now on as well as front and rear lights.
Interior wide angle mirror is also fitted, not tight yet as we need to fiddle with the angle we want it whilst strapped in.
Next big job is wetsanding the entire car down to remove orange peel and then polishing it up to perfection! I've treated myself to a DAS-6 PRO DA polisher and some Menzerna compounds - which sound like they'll be up to the job!
Interior wide angle mirror is also fitted, not tight yet as we need to fiddle with the angle we want it whilst strapped in.
Next big job is wetsanding the entire car down to remove orange peel and then polishing it up to perfection! I've treated myself to a DAS-6 PRO DA polisher and some Menzerna compounds - which sound like they'll be up to the job!
massiveCoRbyn
ClioSport Club Member
Several
Colour looks brilliant.
Thankyou, it's a good match!
Thankyou much appreciated. Yeah we're doing it in the style of the old 'Mild Seven' Renault F1 cars - got all the graphics here ready to be applied when the paintworks finished ?
The entire car has been wetsanded and polished now so there is no more orange peel anywhere and it's even glossier now. Need to go over it again with finer compound but leaving it until we can work outside in the sunlight as we're bored of polishing for now?
Today we put the door seals and window rubbers back in along with bolting in our homemade front polycarbonate windows with self fabricated brackets.
The wing mirrors are back on, the sunstrip is on and the bonnet pins are back in. It finally looks like a car again ?
Ordered some more rivets today for the rear windows so we can fit them when they arrive along with the rear windscreen. Also ordered some slightly longer bolts for the window sliders as the supplied ones we're way too small.
Today we put the door seals and window rubbers back in along with bolting in our homemade front polycarbonate windows with self fabricated brackets.
The wing mirrors are back on, the sunstrip is on and the bonnet pins are back in. It finally looks like a car again ?
Ordered some more rivets today for the rear windows so we can fit them when they arrive along with the rear windscreen. Also ordered some slightly longer bolts for the window sliders as the supplied ones we're way too small.
Begun putting the stickers on the car yesterday, managed to get the main parts of the drivers side done and the bonnet. Also drove the car outside today in the sunlight and let it run for a bit for the first time ever really ? Only problems are a small water leak where it just needs a new jubilee clip and the fuel pump being so noisy it gives you a headache ?
Also did some more little things like refit the boot springs and Pete painted the rest of the parts off the car for us like the door handles, bullets and sideskirts. Next thing I'll be doing is putting the door handles back on and then the door cards ?
Also did some more little things like refit the boot springs and Pete painted the rest of the parts off the car for us like the door handles, bullets and sideskirts. Next thing I'll be doing is putting the door handles back on and then the door cards ?
Looks good. ?
More stickers applied... to the inside this time
I've also fitted the slider kits we bought to both sides now so the front windows are complete!
The tailgate window is in now too after yesterday. It was a pain but we got there in the end. Doesn't look the prettiest but it does the job and was free - rather this than pay loads for a thermoformed one!
Drivers side rear window is also in now too! Can't do the passenger side yet as we need to finish off the livery that side before putting it in.
Both door cards are in along with the handles and homemade door pulls by Alex. Car's looking good ?
I've also fitted the slider kits we bought to both sides now so the front windows are complete!
The tailgate window is in now too after yesterday. It was a pain but we got there in the end. Doesn't look the prettiest but it does the job and was free - rather this than pay loads for a thermoformed one!
Drivers side rear window is also in now too! Can't do the passenger side yet as we need to finish off the livery that side before putting it in.
Both door cards are in along with the handles and homemade door pulls by Alex. Car's looking good ?
Picked up another set of wheels yesterday. Unsure of the model but they're Team Dynamics and look really nice. Won't be keeping the Kawasaki Green colour though... thinking either gold or white at the mo. Will be used as wets.
Also fitted the Sparco tow strap yesterday after Pete welded us a post through the bumper to bolt it onto. This was due to the thread in the chassis for the towing eye being rusted away and also so if we ever need to be towed our bumper wouldn't rip off as the strap would pull it around. Unlikely but it's safer this way.
More stickers too!
Also fitted the Sparco tow strap yesterday after Pete welded us a post through the bumper to bolt it onto. This was due to the thread in the chassis for the towing eye being rusted away and also so if we ever need to be towed our bumper wouldn't rip off as the strap would pull it around. Unlikely but it's safer this way.
More stickers too!
Not updated this for a while as nothing really to show. We've been slowly taking our time chopping away at the wiring loom. The engine bay is finished and fully re-wrapped in protective loom tape and I'd say the interior loom is 1/2 way there now. The loom is literally going to be the bare minimum, indicator stalks, clocks and lights. No ignition barrel or anything else I can think of really which is brilliant. So far so good, everything is working still!
Also just been doing boring bits like spraying the wiper mechanism and refitting that so nothing interesting to write about hence no updates.
Excuse the bad camera quality my phones camera is broken..
Current state of wires for the interior! Still a load to go and although there looks to be loads here there was probably double this again when we started. Once I've cut them all the redundant fuses and relays will be removed also and t hen the entire loom will be taped up like the engine bay.
Picking up a carbon fibre bonnet tomorrow also which I won on eBay at the weekend ? Wont be fitting it anytime soon as I want to finish the car and use it before faffing around replacing the bonnet.
Also just been doing boring bits like spraying the wiper mechanism and refitting that so nothing interesting to write about hence no updates.
Excuse the bad camera quality my phones camera is broken..
Current state of wires for the interior! Still a load to go and although there looks to be loads here there was probably double this again when we started. Once I've cut them all the redundant fuses and relays will be removed also and t hen the entire loom will be taped up like the engine bay.
Picking up a carbon fibre bonnet tomorrow also which I won on eBay at the weekend ? Wont be fitting it anytime soon as I want to finish the car and use it before faffing around replacing the bonnet.
Danith
ClioSport Club Member
GTi 7.5 pp/Mx5 nd2
Lots of little bits have been done since the last update just haven't really had time to update due to uni exams and assignments, in-between helping our friend build his car for the event and ours.
We've made a mutual agreement between the 4 of us that we're not going to go to the rally stage on 12th due to multiple reasons that have all came up at the wrong time unfortunately out of our control... And the fact that none of our cars are ready with literally 2 weeks to go. We're all gutted as we've been slaving away for months now and rushing around and looking forward to it for so long. The new plan is to carry on building/repairing them all and hire Curborough out for the day as it's very local to us and will be a good test day for our car before doing a bigger event. After all it could break down after driving a metre as we've never tested any of it!
Anyway...Since the last update:
- Extinguisher is now plumbed in with both nozzles mounted in the engine bay & pull cord connected.
- Since deciding not to do the rally day we've also gutted the engine bay wiring loom to the bare minimum! Interior next.
- Flatted the car down some more for paint and fillered/knocked out any dents.
- Straightened the sill jacking points out, sanded rust to bare metal and primed. (Unfortunately found about a 2" square patch of rot on the sill which we'll repair before painting it - luckily it's not too bad and the only rot on the car!
Last week we also made a purchase after getting bored of waiting for Rimstock for 14 weeks after being quoted 6! And the wheels still not having been even machined
The only snag was we had to have black as we refused to pay an extra £150 odd for a different colour - glad we didn't though as they're stunning!
Last night I also spotted a bargain for 6 Direzzas in R1 compound local to us so off we went straight away to buy those
Final thing we did today apart from filler and flat down was put some quick release bumper catches on the front (to drill the holes before paint)
Need to finish rubbing the filler down next to the right shapes and then spray the car so we can build it and get it out ASAP!
s**t! Doesn't sound good. I'm waiting on wheels from TD too, this is week 5 of "6 or 7". The last set I gpt off them were on time though last year, I'm sure.
My mate also had probs this year
s**t! Doesn't sound good. I'm waiting on wheels from TD too, this is week 5 of "6 or 7". The last set I gpt off them were on time though last year, I'm sure.
My mate also had probs this year
Ik bit poor really considering they're such a big company. Really rude and unhelpful everytime I rang too. Suppose they don't care about individual customers when they've got teams giving them thousands...
Good luck lol, they're about as useful as a chocolate fireguard
Picked up the carbon bonnet yesterday and placed it on the car to see what it looks like. We think it'll look awesome once it's got some stickers matching our livery on it - bargain!
Also finished cutting plugs off the interior loom yesterday and managed to depin all the wires we'd cut so far. My job tomorrow is to pull any unused fuses we've missed using a diagram and cut those wires too! There's hardly any now ?
Also finished cutting plugs off the interior loom yesterday and managed to depin all the wires we'd cut so far. My job tomorrow is to pull any unused fuses we've missed using a diagram and cut those wires too! There's hardly any now ?
The entire loom is cut down fully and has been re-wrapped in loom tape and tidied away now so the inside looks like a car again. Alex did most of this yesterday while I was at work. While I was gone she also gave the car a good clean, fitted the last window to go in on the NSR and then finished putting all the stickers on along with the NS side skirt.
We're also awaiting delivery of a PMS Shifter kit which will hopefully be with us at the end of this week as one of Alex's birthday presents from last week ?
We're also awaiting delivery of a PMS Shifter kit which will hopefully be with us at the end of this week as one of Alex's birthday presents from last week ?
Demister blower is now mounted and wired in, just needs some ducting ordering and fitting.
PMS linkage was also delivered Monday and Alex and her Dad fitted it Tuesday night. Just needs setting up now which we'll do tomorrow ?
PMS linkage was also delivered Monday and Alex and her Dad fitted it Tuesday night. Just needs setting up now which we'll do tomorrow ?
Did a few bits yesterday... the PMS shifter is now set up properly - feels really good. Also replaced our hazard switch with a new one as it was playing up, fitted new side repeater lenses and a new boot light.
Also put some cage padding on which completes the look of the interior really ?
Finally, fitted the pull cords to the scuttle panel along with applying the stickers to the bonnet. Just need to drill a hole in the bulkhead for them somewhere and connect them at the other end now.
Also put some cage padding on which completes the look of the interior really ?
Finally, fitted the pull cords to the scuttle panel along with applying the stickers to the bonnet. Just need to drill a hole in the bulkhead for them somewhere and connect them at the other end now.
Audi rs3/Clio 172cup
Great thread this. I’ve been following from the start as I almost bought the shell myself when it was on eBay. It’s come a long way ??
Thankyou very much, it was very much a shed when we bought it ?
Keep forgetting to update the blog but we've been extremely busy putting the finishing touches to get the car ready.
Jobs completed since last update:
Jobs completed since last update:
- The extinguisher and autolec cords are now both secured at the other end with the solderless nipples.
- New Brembo HC discs on the front.
- Brake lines fastened out of the way.
- Scuttle panel secured down.
- Wipers back on and jets piped up.
- Tyres have been put on the new wheels + fitted to the car.
- Manifold Back Oreca Group A exhaust fitted (See video below - Not sure why the camera quality is that of a potato)
- Ride height + damping set with 20L of fuel in the car. (No pictures yet as I think I might tinker with this again)
- Set the front camber bolts to maximum camber - will check when doing alignment to see what values and amend as appropriate.
- Replaced our cheap fuel pump for a Sytec Inline one which is much quieter thankfully and probably will be more reliable in the long run.
- Piped up the ducting to the airbox from the air intakes in the fog light recesses - Originally was going to use them as brake cooling ducts but I couldn't really see anywhere else to put the ducting so used these.
- Fixed a small water leak by replacing a faulty clamp with a new one.
- Made a plate out of 5mm rubber to cover a hole in the rear arch where our filler neck sits through and sealed to prevent water ingress.
- Cut 5mm rubber to shape of mudflaps - to MSA dimensions.
- Wire up our Ammeter gauge.
- Pipe up the demister blower.
- Tracking/Alignment.
- Fit mudflaps.
I did the tracking Thursday night and set the fronts to neutral toe and straightened the steering wheel back up too. I checked the rears too to see which shims I'd need to order in the future to amend them to our preferences and surprisingly it also had neutral toe! A good starting setup I think.
I also begun making a box for our blower to divert it's airflow into the orignal recess in the bulkhead. Couldn't fit ducting into the small slot that was large enough to go on the blower or fit an adapter onto the blower as the cage is in the way.
Latest job which I did yesterday was put a breather pipe on the fuel tank along with a 1 way valve to allow air in but not fuel out this is put through the floor with a grommet to vent.
After that we built some less steep ramps out of the garage.. (We ripped the old exhaust off last time due to the car being too low) drove the Clio outside and performed some very sensible "tests" to check everything was ok with the car. The only problem we found was another small water leak which will be another easy fix - better to find them now than at a track day.
Here are the first proper pictures of the car we've taken of it almost finished, after giving it a quick wash. And a video of one of our "tests"?
I also begun making a box for our blower to divert it's airflow into the orignal recess in the bulkhead. Couldn't fit ducting into the small slot that was large enough to go on the blower or fit an adapter onto the blower as the cage is in the way.
Latest job which I did yesterday was put a breather pipe on the fuel tank along with a 1 way valve to allow air in but not fuel out this is put through the floor with a grommet to vent.
After that we built some less steep ramps out of the garage.. (We ripped the old exhaust off last time due to the car being too low) drove the Clio outside and performed some very sensible "tests" to check everything was ok with the car. The only problem we found was another small water leak which will be another easy fix - better to find them now than at a track day.
Here are the first proper pictures of the car we've taken of it almost finished, after giving it a quick wash. And a video of one of our "tests"?
Haven't updated this for what seems an eternity yet again.. still been chipping away at the project though.
Since the last update we've sorta come to a standstill with the car as it's pretty much done now but we have been doing some little finishing touches:
So now that was decided the logbook build journey begins ?
The first easy thing to be ticked off the to-do list was replacing our 0.5l catch tank with a 2l one as per MSA bluebook regs. So I ordered a Ralloy 2l Catch tank and we replaced that! Due to it being quite big we had to nudge our expansion tank over a space and also move the NS extinguisher bracket over a notch as it was pointing at the bottle lid after we moved it ?
While we were in the engine bay I finally ordered some Nimbus Lite heat shield which I've been meaning to buy for months and fitted that in a way that it shields the brake lines on the bulkhead and the bias box. Quite happy with how the engine bay looks now ? Just needs a set of ITB's
Picture of the new rollover valve and showing the harnesses tied up neatly.
Shot of the interior after cleaning (a rare sight it being clean)
At present not done anything else to progress towards a logbook but we just want to get this test day out of the way, and another one we've got booked on 22nd September to see what breaks and what we want to change. The good thing is now the car is in a usable state for track days so we can enjoy those while taking our time to build it now to a Logbooked spec. I guess I should message a Mod to change the thread title if that's even possible?
I think the car's ready for Tuesday just needs:
Since the last update we've sorta come to a standstill with the car as it's pretty much done now but we have been doing some little finishing touches:
- I finished making the box for our demister blower out of some spare polycarb we had laying around.
- Swapped the 1 way breather valve on the fuel tank for a proper Mocal "Rollover valve" after soon realising a true one way valve will pressurise the tank.
- Swapped out the Front master cylinder to a .500 (from .625) because the pedal was way too hard - we ended up bending the link rod from pushing so hard on the pedal and it not travelling + re-bled the brakes in addition to replacing the NSF caliper which had somehow seized up, even after it's rebuild.
- Tidied harnesses up and set them to roughly the correct lengths.
- Alex has cleaned the car in prep for our first test at Curborough Sprint Course on Tuesday which we've hired out for the day!
So now that was decided the logbook build journey begins ?
The first easy thing to be ticked off the to-do list was replacing our 0.5l catch tank with a 2l one as per MSA bluebook regs. So I ordered a Ralloy 2l Catch tank and we replaced that! Due to it being quite big we had to nudge our expansion tank over a space and also move the NS extinguisher bracket over a notch as it was pointing at the bottle lid after we moved it ?
While we were in the engine bay I finally ordered some Nimbus Lite heat shield which I've been meaning to buy for months and fitted that in a way that it shields the brake lines on the bulkhead and the bias box. Quite happy with how the engine bay looks now ? Just needs a set of ITB's
Picture of the new rollover valve and showing the harnesses tied up neatly.
Shot of the interior after cleaning (a rare sight it being clean)
At present not done anything else to progress towards a logbook but we just want to get this test day out of the way, and another one we've got booked on 22nd September to see what breaks and what we want to change. The good thing is now the car is in a usable state for track days so we can enjoy those while taking our time to build it now to a Logbooked spec. I guess I should message a Mod to change the thread title if that's even possible?
I think the car's ready for Tuesday just needs:
- A check over.
- Wet tyres putting on wheels.
- Regulator checking it's set at 3 BAR.
- Fix two tiny water leaks I've found - just need to tighten the clamps.
Audi rs3/Clio 172cup
Looking good but never knew the size of a catch can was a thing for rallying. My brothers had a 0.5 in his 106 cup car for years and it’s never been brought up. And I’ve just put a 1L one on mine
Nice one, I've probably got it wrong then haha. I've definitely read it somewhere in an MSA regulation just not the right one probably ?
