Mr Trailer Man
ClioSport Club Member
SRF for me, easy get a year to 18 months out of it.
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Brigsy's other cars - formerly kangoo 172 cup
Brigsy
ClioSport Club Member
T.Turbo
Updates.
Kicked the Extra out of the garage whilst the kangoo is getting its ecu upgrade. Ive got a new mac valve to fix high boost so made a start on fitting.
On removal the issue with the old mac valve was pretty obvious.
Clean ish break on the wire, unsure if fatigue due to vibration due to the location bolted to the turbo compressor housing. The areas surrounding the turbo are less than ideal for relocating it, so bolted it to the front panel. I dont think this is really optimal and hose length a bit longer than id like, but cant have it all.
With that boxed off, i give it an oil change as due. Valvoline Vr1 20/50 mineral oil and purflux ls218 oil filter.
Extraction pump as usual as i refuse to remove the sump plug now its leak free.
Note grill removed on the above pic. The oil filter is a nightmare to remove with the boost hose in front, fmic in front of that and alternator above. A stock gtt oil filter is relatively poor access wise but this is next level poor. 7/10 on the difficulty/arm scratching.
With that done, road testing. High boost works again, typically the boost curve is not the same and the pressure has gone down from 21psi to 19psi. Always find that swapping mac/n75 etc on tuned setups in open loop boost control always needs a tweak. Ill datalog and set up again or book it in for a quick dyno check.
Thanks for reading!!
Kicked the Extra out of the garage whilst the kangoo is getting its ecu upgrade. Ive got a new mac valve to fix high boost so made a start on fitting.
On removal the issue with the old mac valve was pretty obvious.
Clean ish break on the wire, unsure if fatigue due to vibration due to the location bolted to the turbo compressor housing. The areas surrounding the turbo are less than ideal for relocating it, so bolted it to the front panel. I dont think this is really optimal and hose length a bit longer than id like, but cant have it all.
With that boxed off, i give it an oil change as due. Valvoline Vr1 20/50 mineral oil and purflux ls218 oil filter.
Note grill removed on the above pic. The oil filter is a nightmare to remove with the boost hose in front, fmic in front of that and alternator above. A stock gtt oil filter is relatively poor access wise but this is next level poor. 7/10 on the difficulty/arm scratching.
With that done, road testing. High boost works again, typically the boost curve is not the same and the pressure has gone down from 21psi to 19psi. Always find that swapping mac/n75 etc on tuned setups in open loop boost control always needs a tweak. Ill datalog and set up again or book it in for a quick dyno check.
Thanks for reading!!
Flob
ClioSport Club Member
How comes it open loop Brigsy?
Brigsy
ClioSport Club Member
T.Turbo
Been honest, unsure
We have the boost tapering in with rpm so i guess thats how Chris prefers to set them up.
Flob
ClioSport Club Member
Open loop is achievable within the time frame of a rolling road session, closed loop boost can be a right pain in the arse to get working properly so I think a lot of tuners just chose to get the job done with open loop.
However for me it leaves a lot to be desired, boost will change with different parts, weather, temperatures and I've had cars which on some days will hit boost cut and other days will be below target and tbh it can be a bit of a problem as a lot of the WOT mapping has been done at one particular boost/load so when this changes you often end up doing wot throttle pulls across different load sites which isn't ideal.
Depending on ecu you can often run closed loop boost and change target based on RPM/TPS/Wheel speed etc. Many will now also let you have switchable targets. Its probably something you are better off experimenting with mate, you know what the boost curve was when it was mapped so you would be very safe in implementing closed loop on the road, if it f***s up just go back to the dyno setup.
The goal is consistent and repeatable engine load which is especially good on track! As everytime you open the throttle you know whats going to happen.
However for me it leaves a lot to be desired, boost will change with different parts, weather, temperatures and I've had cars which on some days will hit boost cut and other days will be below target and tbh it can be a bit of a problem as a lot of the WOT mapping has been done at one particular boost/load so when this changes you often end up doing wot throttle pulls across different load sites which isn't ideal.
Depending on ecu you can often run closed loop boost and change target based on RPM/TPS/Wheel speed etc. Many will now also let you have switchable targets. Its probably something you are better off experimenting with mate, you know what the boost curve was when it was mapped so you would be very safe in implementing closed loop on the road, if it f***s up just go back to the dyno setup.
The goal is consistent and repeatable engine load which is especially good on track! As everytime you open the throttle you know whats going to happen.
Flob
ClioSport Club Member
The other thing is, and this isn't at all a slight on Chris but I suspect it is absolutely crazy the number of systems he tunes so he probably to a certain extent sticks with what he knows will work.
With Link for example, it took me ages to learn about some of the details surrounding the more advanced features and I got a lot wrong before it started to make sense, 10's of hours of reading and 12hrs+ of mapping later and its all good, but to then jump straight onto a different brand of ecu where they do things slightly differently would mean another 10+ hours of reading and learning when I know if I just choose standard speed density, open loop boost etc. you could get it a very good standard within the allotted time.
The trade off is later consistency to the dyno session, you can't check tune/boost/idle for different temperatures or conditions etc. So the fact he gets them so good is very impressive.
My mate asked me to look at his Pectel the other day and I didn't have a clue - may as well have never seen an after market ecu before. Im sure its great but I'm not sure I have the patience to understand wtf its doing.
With Link for example, it took me ages to learn about some of the details surrounding the more advanced features and I got a lot wrong before it started to make sense, 10's of hours of reading and 12hrs+ of mapping later and its all good, but to then jump straight onto a different brand of ecu where they do things slightly differently would mean another 10+ hours of reading and learning when I know if I just choose standard speed density, open loop boost etc. you could get it a very good standard within the allotted time.
The trade off is later consistency to the dyno session, you can't check tune/boost/idle for different temperatures or conditions etc. So the fact he gets them so good is very impressive.
My mate asked me to look at his Pectel the other day and I didn't have a clue
- may as well have never seen an after market ecu before. Im sure its great but I'm not sure I have the patience to understand wtf its doing.
Brigsy
ClioSport Club Member
T.Turbo
Totally agree mate, i think Chris will use open loop due to time and trust in it working.
Ill defo investigate the closed loop. Nothing to lose as you say and scope for more consistency, Ive noticed slight differences in boost at altitude and air temps. Not massive but as expected. Can soon go back to open loop if its a problem.
Know exactly what you mean when looking at different ecu software for the first time. Looks totally alien on the complicated stuff. My venture into oem/winols made me realise how many hours are required to learn how to tune them. All fun though!
Ill defo investigate the closed loop. Nothing to lose as you say and scope for more consistency, Ive noticed slight differences in boost at altitude and air temps. Not massive but as expected. Can soon go back to open loop if its a problem.
Know exactly what you mean when looking at different ecu software for the first time. Looks totally alien on the complicated stuff. My venture into oem/winols made me realise how many hours are required to learn how to tune them. All fun though!
Mr Trailer Man
ClioSport Club Member
Chris would do closed loop if you want I'm sure.
