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_WILL_
ClioSport Club Member
172 Cup
So I was at Bedford Friday night and experienced and issue. I was getting a knock through the steering, it was inconsistent and only happened on changes of direction, when the front was loaded up. It has also done it a few times when parking!
its the first time I have run track tyres and camber bolts on the car so I imagine the loads have increased.
It it feels like a spline might be slipping. I can only think that would be the UJ to rack pinion, I have checked it and it is still torqued up.
Has as anyone got a picture of theirs fitted ( UJ to rack, should be able to see it down the back if the engine). I want to make sure I haven't done anything stupid! Also if anyone has had similar and has any ideas please let me know.
its the first time I have run track tyres and camber bolts on the car so I imagine the loads have increased.
It it feels like a spline might be slipping. I can only think that would be the UJ to rack pinion, I have checked it and it is still torqued up.
Has as anyone got a picture of theirs fitted ( UJ to rack, should be able to see it down the back if the engine). I want to make sure I haven't done anything stupid! Also if anyone has had similar and has any ideas please let me know.
_WILL_
ClioSport Club Member
172 Cup
Yeah.
I had that issue on both of my DCi racks, running AD08R's and -1.5 camber. Changed to a looped PAS rack and it's much better. Still get the odd knock when parking on high grip surfaces though, can't really pin down what's causing it, seems like the noise comes from within the rack.
_WILL_
ClioSport Club Member
172 Cup
this is what I get, left lock I get a quiet on and then a loud one approx half a turn later, and one small right hand down. It's very loud with head under the bonnet. I will dig into it a bit and see what I can find.
yeah that is what I am getting. I will see if I can get it on a ramp somewhere and have a look.
My current thinking is that with the motor being on the column all of the turning force goes through the pinion gear. When the load is too high it sometimes locks up and then suddenly releases, causing the knock.
With the hydraulic setup there's actually not much turning force going through the pinion gear as when the wheel is turned and the valves open it's the hydraulic fluid pushing the rack along that does most of the work, the pinion is more of a fail safe in this setup.
I'm guessing the force required to turn the wheels on a lesser powered clio is smaller due to less castor, camber, more narrow tires, generally a less sticky compound, etc meaning the rack doesn't suffer from locking up.
With the hydraulic setup there's actually not much turning force going through the pinion gear as when the wheel is turned and the valves open it's the hydraulic fluid pushing the rack along that does most of the work, the pinion is more of a fail safe in this setup.
I'm guessing the force required to turn the wheels on a lesser powered clio is smaller due to less castor, camber, more narrow tires, generally a less sticky compound, etc meaning the rack doesn't suffer from locking up.
_WILL_
ClioSport Club Member
172 Cup
The noise on mine is defiantly coming from somewhere in or under the engine bay. After a very quick look it seems like it is coming from the rack. Not sure if it is rack mount or internal to the rack, or inner track rods.
I'm hoping to get under the car this week so if I find anything I will let you know. May try and get some videos etc as it may help people diagnose the same issue in the future.
I'm hoping to get under the car this week so if I find anything I will let you know. May try and get some videos etc as it may help people diagnose the same issue in the future.
Like I said; mine clicks but not looking into it as my inner tie rods need changing so once they done and if the problem is still there will look into it.
As said above though, about the pinch bolts is taking more force as it's turning the column not the actual rack seems a good possible cause. Looking at the universal joint, it doesn't look that robust
As said above though, about the pinch bolts is taking more force as it's turning the column not the actual rack seems a good possible cause. Looking at the universal joint, it doesn't look that robust
_WILL_
ClioSport Club Member
172 Cup
I am just going to give it all a once over and go from there. If I find anything I will report back.
I have a spare used rack sat in the shed to I can always drop that in if needed. Is it a case of fill with pas fluid and link the in and output from the PAS system to each other?
So would the setup still work with this rack?
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Yes mate it would still work. The downside to it is that you'll have more turns from lock to lock.
_WILL_
ClioSport Club Member
172 Cup
I have resolved the noise issue on my car. Steering race to subframe bolts, the torque had relaxed slightly. Re-torqued and noise has gone. There was no noticeable movement but bolts were not tight enough.
Going to replace the and put some new nyloc nuts on as well. They are a bit of a pig to get to tho so not sure how to get a torque wrench on them!
Going to replace the and put some new nyloc nuts on as well. They are a bit of a pig to get to tho so not sure how to get a torque wrench on them!
What is the correct torque setting for these bolts ?
_WILL_
ClioSport Club Member
172 Cup
I am not sure about the 197 / 200 rack but I know earlier on in the thread there was a lot of torque about the twingo RS track, which looks like a nicer cast aluminium part. However I think there were some alignment issues, and I am not sure if they were resolved. It will prob be in the first few pages of the thread. I think people discussed machining the mounts to fit, but personally I am against machining the mounts.
Its a shame as I think it would be a good rack to use.
However its def worth checking the rack mount torques before you change anything, I was convinced mine were tight and there was no movement I could see or feel, but the torque was low and tightening it up fixed the noise.
Its a shame as I think it would be a good rack to use.
However its def worth checking the rack mount torques before you change anything, I was convinced mine were tight and there was no movement I could see or feel, but the torque was low and tightening it up fixed the noise.
To save me going through the thread, what belt size is needed for this? (using cup brackets/alternator)
Cheers!
Cheers!
I know the 1.2 petrol rack is more turns lock to lock. Just wondering if you checked to see if the ratio was the same?
In other words if you do 1 complete turn of the wheel does it move the rack the same distance on both the 1.2 and dci rack? If it does then there should be no issue fitting the 1.2 rack. The speed of the steering will be the same, you will just get a tighter steering lock with the petrol one.
In other words if you do 1 complete turn of the wheel does it move the rack the same distance on both the 1.2 and dci rack? If it does then there should be no issue fitting the 1.2 rack. The speed of the steering will be the same, you will just get a tighter steering lock with the petrol one.
This is a very good point, and something I'd like to know as I'm trying to source a new/reconditioned rack and can't find a 2.75 DCI one anywhere.
On the old Fiestas the XR2 has a 3.0 turn rack and the base spec was 3.5 turn. Same ratio but the XR had lock stops.
I don't think this is the same on the Clios though. The early non PAS Clio racks have a 55mm pinion, EPAS are 50mm and the sport PAS racks are 43mm. If you go off that then it works out as 43mm = 2.75 turns, 50mm is 3.25 turns and 55mm is 3.5 turns. Unless the 2.75 DCI racks have a 50mm pinion rack and lock stops for different offset wheels and wider tyres.
Has anyone driven with both the 3.25 and the 2.75 and noticed a massive difference?
I've found a place that can refurb racks for £60-70 with a 24hr turnaround so its possible to buy a 2.75 turn one used and get it fixed up. Now I need to decide what to do.
If they are different ratios the 3.25 will be easier to turn with no PAS but slower, still, as far as a non PAS racks go 3.25 is short-ish. You can buy Quaife quick-racks for Honda Civics which are 3.25!
If they are the same ratio but the 2.75 has lock stops then 3.25 might present issues by giving a tighter turning circle which would mean the possibility of catching the inner arches with the tyres.
If they are different ratios the 3.25 will be easier to turn with no PAS but slower, still, as far as a non PAS racks go 3.25 is short-ish. You can buy Quaife quick-racks for Honda Civics which are 3.25!
If they are the same ratio but the 2.75 has lock stops then 3.25 might present issues by giving a tighter turning circle which would mean the possibility of catching the inner arches with the tyres.
Tim.
ClioSport Club Member
You may be waiting a while for a response...
Thats's the info I was looking for.
So dci rack is what you need then if you want quicker steering then. Shame as there seem to be lots more petrol ones about and you can still buy it from Renault as well, but not the dci.
You can get the dci rack refurbished.
3.25 is by no means slow though. It's the same as a E36 M3 ( it's 3.25 with lock stops to get 3.0). 306 gti is the same, civic EG and so on.
It's just slower than what we started with which is a fairly quick rack, quicker than an EP3 2.83 or DC2 2.9.
I never struggled with the steering on my Fiesta and that was a 3.5 with lock stops to get to 3.0. So I'm half tempted to get the 3.25 rack and not bother with any EPAS at all.
3.25 is by no means slow though. It's the same as a E36 M3 ( it's 3.25 with lock stops to get 3.0). 306 gti is the same, civic EG and so on.
It's just slower than what we started with which is a fairly quick rack, quicker than an EP3 2.83 or DC2 2.9.
I never struggled with the steering on my Fiesta and that was a 3.5 with lock stops to get to 3.0. So I'm half tempted to get the 3.25 rack and not bother with any EPAS at all.
I'm considering removing my EPAS and running no pas at all, what would be the best rack for this?
If you've already got epas then why not just vary the assistance until you're happy?
My rack has play in it so need a new rack and was just going to switch back to the manual column, save some weight instead of the motor being there, with the car not being used much as of next year I want the most feel and best response I can get
