RB PH1 172 Rally Car Progress

[Nathan Evans]

Nice one, I've probably got it wrong then haha. I've definitely read it somewhere in an MSA regulation just not the right one probably ?

I just had a look. 2L is circuit racing, stage Rallying is 1L. So my brothers doesn’t comply but it’s never been brought up yet though.

Scrutineers are a funny bunch though. Last rally they told me a need spring washers under the bolts in my cage and not penny washers....... can’t find it in the blue book anywhere saying you need sprung washers ?

 

[Hazza462]

I just had a look. 2L is circuit racing, stage Rallying is 1L. So my brothers doesn’t comply but it’s never been brought up yet though.

Scrutineers are a funny bunch though. Last rally they told me a need spring washers under the bolts in my cage and not penny washers....... can’t find it in the blue book anywhere saying you need sprung washers ?

Ah my mistake!! oh well it looks nice ? You're right they can be right picky sometimes... Did you do Anglesey earlier this year? I'm sure I came and looked at what I think was your car and it didn't even click that it was you lol

 

[Nathan Evans]

Yeah that was me mate. Only did 4 stages and the gearbox blew up. I’m doing the Promenade stages in 2 weeks

 

[Hazza462]

Yeah that was me mate. Only did 4 stages and the gearbox blew up. I’m doing the Promenade stages in 2 weeks

Ahh haha thought so! I think I'm servicing there so might see you there

 

[Coops Mk1]

Car looks great, hope the shakedown goes well be nice for you guys to pop the thing through its paces!

 

[Hazza462]

Car looks great, hope the shakedown goes well be nice for you guys to pop the thing through its paces!

Thankyou very much! Hopefully not too much damage is caused, but something's bound to break lol

 

[Coops Mk1]

Build
Race
Fix
Repeat

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

I didn't even realise there was a rule on catch tank sizes. Doubt mine is big enough. Might have to buy a bigger one. Shame, I like my £13 Chinese one lol.

 

[Hazza462]

Build
Race
Fix
Repeat

Pretty much sums up life that ?

I didn't even realise there was a rule on catch tank sizes. Doubt mine is big enough. Might have to buy a bigger one. Shame, I like my £13 Chinese one lol.

Ours was exactly the same one lol, I liked it too purely because it was cheap?

 

[Hazza462]

All loaded up ready for Tuesday after a busy day!

 

[Hazza462]

So we made it to our first track day on Tuesday hassle free, until we got there...

On the parade lap we begun driving around the track slowly as you do and got to the straight and the car started misfiring and wouldn't rev over 3000rpm ? Everyone was so confused as we'd been driving up and down the drive hassle free and the car was running spot on. After a bit of investigation when we returned to the pits we decided it sounded like a fueling issue - we've always been curious as to why our fuel pump was so noisy compared to everyone elses, it sounds like it's just sucking air and no fuel. Unfortunately we didn't bring a spare pump with us so I had to drive home to get one along with a crank sensor and coil pack just in case these were causing the issue.

When I got back after an hour or so we took off the pump and replaced it with the spare. Tested it and still the same. Tried upping the fuel pressure on the regulator too and no joy. Unplugged the speedo drive to eliminate an electrical fault, changed the crank sensor and coil pack just to rule them out and still the same story - won't rev over 3000rpm misfiring.

We then went back to the idea of a fuelling issue and I suggested removing the fuel filter out of the system to eliminate that, just as a temporary measure to prove a point. Our Sytec filter is the smaller one of the two they make and our idea was that because of this it was restricting the flow of fuel to the pump. After taking it off and re-connecting the pump with no filter on we started the car. The pump was now silent like it should be and the car ran like an absolute dream much to our happiness ? We we're all so relieved.

Here's the first ever pics of our car on the track - a proud moment for everyone involved ? It is so responsive to drive it's amazing.

The only crap thing about the car is the brakes. They are absolutely shocking due to having no movement in the pedal ?? After our next track day I'm buying a floor mounted pedal box and fitting that - eliminating the bias box which clearly isn't working for some reason after trying everything I can think of to fix it. Think after another test day I may also buy some 4 pots for the front depending on how it turns out.

Hydraulic handbrake works very well! ?

However it wasn't all fun and games for us in the end after all. Due to removing the filter the pump slowly started becoming more and more noisy as the afternoon progressed and we managed about 15 laps in total before the misfiring issue returned.

We knew it would happen but we enjoyed ourselves so it was worth killing the pump and filter... Also we forgot to plug the speedo drive back in after excitingly fixing the issue and rushing out on track and so that plug has now been ripped off lmao? You can see it under the car in the pictures hanging around lol.

Yesterday Pete took the filter apart to see what crap was stuck in it and it's now pretty obvious why we had an issue. Aluminium filings from when we had our filler cut off and re-welded.

Obviously we can't just leave this now as it will just do the same again so the plan is to siphon all the fuel out of the tank and then clean it out until we can no longer see anything else other than fuel. Our existing filter has been cleaned out and so is safe to re-use but I've bought another one (bigger this time too) along with a metal filter element for piece of mind that the paper filter won't collapse.. Will maybe do the same with the pump depending on what we discover.

List of issues found with the car on Tuesday:

• Needs new fuel filter
• Maybe new pump?
• New speedo drive plug
• NS Brake light stopped working.
• AWFUL brakes.
• Steering wheel is not straight when the car's going straight - need to redo tracking with the wheel in correct position.

Other than that it is a rocket.

In summary the day was a success as we found some issues with the car that we would have been gutted with if we turned up to say the rally event we planned to do in Wales. We shall fix the fueling issue before our next trackday on 22nd and take it from there.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Well done, sounds like you had fun. What pump are you running?

My advice would be to ditch the Sytec stuff, it's garbage. My friend was running a Sytec filter and pump on his Escort and it caused us endless problems. Fitted a Bosch filter and 044 pump and it's never given a hint of bother.

 

[Hazza462]

Well done, sounds like you had fun. What pump are you running?

My advice would be to ditch the Sytec stuff, it's garbage. My friend was running a Sytec filter and pump on his Escort and it caused us endless problems. Fitted a Bosch filter and 044 pump and it's never given a hint of bother.

Thankyou! Was a cheap APS jobby off eBay swapped it for the Sytec one but have swapped it back now in all the madness - Seems fine for now.

Weird that is, never heard a bad word said about them tbf, everyone we know runs a Sytec pump + filter and have never had an issue ? Perhaps you had a faulty one?

 

[RuskiWeldFab]

So great to see it run! Bet you over the moon!!! There was always gonna be issues on the first run! I had a few. Fixed them and second run was faultless! Apart from the brakes! Just not big enough. Going for 4 pots as well.
Also I run a small Syvec filter as well. Not had an issue with it myself. When is the next outing? Come to Bedford on the 25th


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[Hazza462]

So great to see it run! Bet you over the moon!!! There was always gonna be issues on the first run! I had a few. Fixed them and second run was faultless! Apart from the brakes! Just not big enough. Going for 4 pots as well.
Also I run a small Syvec filter as well. Not had an issue with it myself. When is the next outing? Come to Bedford on the 25th


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I know haha, absolutely over the moon yeah! Hopefully ours is the same story lol. I think the plan for me now is to get a Wildwood floor mount pedal box (can't afford Tilton and have heard crap things about OBP ones) and see if it changes anything, then 4 pots if not.

Something's up with my filter there must be haha, a new bigger ones in the post so hopefully it'll cure the issue. We siphoned and took the tank off yesterday and thoroughly cleaned it out with a pretty boring repetetive process for at least an hour until no more bits were visible.

Next outting is 22nd September at Curborough again... Would love to but it's a good few hours away and have got a load of rallies coming up and many cars to help prep! ?

 

[RuskiWeldFab]

What are your plans on separating fuel tank from the cockpit? That’s the only thing that’s stoping me. No idea how to do it bet with out adding a ton of weight!


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[massiveCoRbyn]

Thankyou! Was a cheap APS jobby off eBay swapped it for the Sytec one but have swapped it back now in all the madness - Seems fine for now.

Weird that is, never heard a bad word said about them tbf, everyone we know runs a Sytec pump + filter and have never had an issue ? Perhaps you had a faulty one?

We did wonder that but tried to, and even added an extra filter, but it just kept playing up.

 

[Hazza462]

What are your plans on separating fuel tank from the cockpit? That’s the only thing that’s stoping me. No idea how to do it bet with out adding a ton of weight!


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Just going to put a tank cover over it mate. Will make it out of sheet aluminium and rivet it together to form the shape then bolt to the floor.

We did wonder that but tried to, and even added an extra filter, but it just kept playing up.

Very strange!! The filter just makes mine noisey af lol. The plan when this new filter arrives was to run the slim filter in the engine bay pre injectors and have the other big one pre pump but think I'll just leave it at the one filter tbh and keep the slim one as a spare.

 

[Hazza462]

Good news!

The bigger Sytec filter turned up yesterday, as well as the metal gauge filter element to replace the standard paper ones. Changed this for piece of mind as I know people who have had their day ruined by the paper ones collapsing so may aswell fix that problem before it ever arrives.

Fitted it last night and the pump is back to being quiet again ?

Also spoke to Compbrake yesterday to try and get some understanding on how to fix our pedal travel issue. He said we'd done all the right things by downsizing the MC, shortening the cylinder rods, adjusting the bias etc etc... and suggested we re-drill the hole in the brake pedal assembly further up - closer to the pivot point. Annoyingly, this is something I was going to do months ago to alter the pedal ratio but didn't!
Anyway, I re-drilled the hole and reassembled the pedal box and the travel is now brilliant! The brakes also feel good so we'll see what happens next Saturday when they're tested properly. Happy days!

 

[Eddie555]

Hi. I have had a few sprint days at Curborough when I used to be a Tiger (Lotus 7 style kit cars) club member. Are there any weekday events that I could join you at Curborough? Be nice to have a blast around there again.

 

[Hazza462]

Hi. I have had a few sprint days at Curborough when I used to be a Tiger (Lotus 7 style kit cars) club member. Are there any weekday events that I could join you at Curborough? Be nice to have a blast around there again.

We're thinking of doing another one around the end of October on a weekday. I'll let you know the date if we end up booking it and you can join us no problem if we have a space! I'll message you closer to it with details if you're interested? ?

 

[Eddie555]

Yea cool that would be great. ?

 

[Hazza462]

Tonight Alex painted a nice edge on our polycarb rear windows to give them a nice finish they've been lacking. Used matt black polycarbonate paint which worked a treat.

Takes your eye off the million rivets we had to use on the rear window ?

While she was doing that I was redoing the tracking as we discovered the steering wheel was slightly off centre when driving at Curborough - should be all straight now!

After that we both jumped on fitting our mudflaps which I've made out of 4mm black rubber to meet MSA specs. All 4 are now half secured on, so no pics yet until they're all on properly.

Car just needs the mudflaps finishing up, a quick check over, a wash and it's good to go for Saturday!

 

[donnylad]

cars looking good, those pics make it look very planted!

If you get any weekend space in Oct let me know as I need to do more testing

Great little track isnt it!

 

[Hazza462]

cars looking good, those pics make it look very planted!

If you get any weekend space in Oct let me know as I need to do more testing

Great little track isnt it!

Thanks mate, it's very stiff... Probably too stiff for a rally car lol.

Sure thing! I'll message you closer to it - was going to ring Curborough today and see whens available ?

 

[Hazza462]

Few bits done today before work...

• Front and Rear mudflaps are on.
• Adjusted the PMS linkage after noticing it was catching the lambda going into 5th.
• Gave the car a quick check over.

Just needs a clean before Saturday now, excitement starting to kick in!

 

[Hazza462]

Had an absolutely awesome day Saturday. Stayed dry in the morning until lunch and then rained all afternoon but that didn't stop us blasting around for the entire day pretty much non stop.

Car performed perfectly, really happy with the setup. Only thing that needs changing regarding setup is the brake bias is way too far on the rear as it kept locking the rear under heavy braking and flicking the back end everywhere ? Was very fun tho catching it... and spinning ?

Photo Creds: Jamie Fowkes for this one.

Only came across two issues the entire day. One being the car cut out after coming in off a run. We bump started it as it wouldn't turn over, sounded like the battery was dead (which it was). Tested the voltage at the alternator and it was dead. Luckily we had a spare alternator with us! However, it wasn't a Cup alternator and so the mounting holes are slightly different on the front. We thought it was game over - I spent ages ringing local motor factors and none of them had one in stock of course. But Pete being Pete didn't give up and raided the van for random parts to make it work. Using the standard rear facing mounting holes he bolted it on while I pulled the alternator up as hard as I could to tighten the belt. Then to keep the tension on the belt we put a ratchet strap on the front of the alternator to hold the tension - pure genius.

This amazing invention lasted the entire day ?? - without any fault at all

Like I say this lasted all day and we got the car to the end with no other problems. Until the last lap when the gearbox decided it no longer wanted to live anymore ?

We got half way round the track and heard an awful rattling noise for a few seconds however passed it off as being stones hitting the underside of the car as it had spent so much time sideways on the grass? This however was shortly followed by the smell of gearbox oil, we finished the lap as the car was still driving perfectly. As we pulled into the service area we soon realised what had happened, there was gear box oil everywhere and huge gash in the casing.

Probably not to many peoples surprise, the gearbox had ? itself.

We got it back home and stripped the box down and found that the planet gears in the diff had some teeth sheered off - no messing about, we ripped it to shreds?

After a lot of head ache research we weighed up literally every option of gearboxes. We decided that the best option practically for us is to do the 02M conversion. So we bought a whole kit with a quaife LSD in. It was dirt cheap and we couldn't turn the offer down. Granted we are now taking to living on the streets, but at least the clio will be happy???

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

I do love Clios but the gearboxes appear to be really poor for rallying. Like really poor ?

Is the 02M difficult to fit? Are there any good ratios for it?

 

[Hazza462]

I do love Clios but the gearboxes appear to be really poor for rallying. Like really poor ?

Is the 02M difficult to fit? Are there any good ratios for it?

It was a shame it broke tbh I feel like the ratios were pretty much bang on in 1st and 2nd maybe not 3rd. I just don't wanna have to fit a box every time we use the car so gonna try the 02M for pure reliability.

It doesn't sound too bad. Luckily the kit we've bought is off a Clio already so has all the hard work done really. New box, shafts, different mounts, custom flywheel, VW starter, VW clutch and adapter plate. Then you have to cut a bit of the subframe out I believe. Can't wait to get it tbh so I can start the work.

Regarding the ratios I'm not really sure. I've tried looking into it but theres loads of variants of the box and I'm unsure which one it is I'm recieving. I'm hoping in the back of my mind they'll be half decent but I'd expect them to probably be longer ratios than the Clio box Will just have to see and if its absolutely awful will sell it and long term buy a Sadev haha. Looking forward to driving with it though, I've never driven a car with an LSD in before so I'm hoping the benefits will outweigh the ratios for now - I know it's not ideal for rallying but I'm poor and not using a Clio box again lol.

 

[Hazza462]

For anyone whos possibly interested in coming to Curborough with us next time round. We've got a provisional date of Tuesday 23rd October.

Price is £100 paid upfront to confirm your spot, food and drink will be provided all day basic BBQ stuff like burgers bacon etc. Bring who you want passenger wise, anyone can drive your car or sit in with you as long as that's ok with you. Hop in and out of any of our cars as you please we're all more than happy enough to give passenger rides.

Driving time is 10-5 with a short break for lunch and there is a maximum of 10 cars so absolutely loads of track time.

Let me know ASAP please if you would like to go So I can book it with Curborough.

Thanks

 

[Hazza462]

Long absence on here due to waiting for this 02M conversion to turn up. Long story short we got scammed and the guy only sent one gearbox and none of the other parts. Not going to name and shame as it's all dealt with now thankfully through PayPal who got the money back for us.
I'm actually now glad that he didn't send the parts as I've had more time to research everything more thoroughly and I think I just panic rushed into buying this kit as it was there whilst I was researching the 02m kit. As @massivewangers said about the ratios... I've been digging for the exact ones from our box that got sent to us. And thanks to @Nathan Evans I've put them into a website he recommended to calculate a few things.
02M Ratios - Here
Std. Clio Box - Here
As you can see the ratios on the 02M box are awful for a Naturally Aspirated engine - far too tall. So basically we're back to square one ?What we've now decided after considering a dog box... is to just put a standard one in until we can afford a sequential. At 3k for a used dog box we may aswell spend a little more and go the whole hog. We also could do about 30 track days for the price of a dogbox and when you think about it like that it's really not worth it?

The refund from the bits we didn't get has given us a bit of accumulated cash however. So with it we're going to crack on and get the car logbooked over winter to do some events next year. I'm planning on doing my trailer test before the end of the year/early next year and also my BARS test so we can do one whenever we want then really. The money should see us complete the car including new in-date seats and harnesses and a few other bits it's missing for logbooking. My idea is to put a cover over the tank and filter and then head down to Geoff Doe who'll give us a definitive list of what we need to then do to logbook it.

In the meantime the next job is to put a standard gearbox in and get the car in a usable state again. I went to pick up a gearbox tonight from @Superninj who was really helpful - nice to meet you! Will chuck the gearbox back in tomorrow and see how far I get putting the subframe etc back on. Also awaiting 3l of ELF gearbox oil for the new box.

 

[Twingo 1??]

Wow sounds like you have gone through some crap!

 

[Nathan Evans]

I knew there was a reason the lads name who you got the gearbox off ran a bell. He was selling an mfactory diff and box earlier this year and I’m sure the same thing happened there. Glad you got your money back though

 

[Hazza462]

Wow sounds like you have gone through some crap!

Lol s**t happens sometimes, just glad I paid via PayPal!

I knew there was a reason the lads name who you got the gearbox off ran a bell. He was selling an mfactory diff and box earlier this year and I’m sure the same thing happened there. Glad you got your money back though

Haha I searched his name on Facebook after buying it and saw a few others had had trouble with him.. should of checked before but hey ho lol. At least we can get the car finished now! Thanks mate

 

[Superninj]

@Superninj[/USER] who was really helpful - nice to meet you! Will chuck the gearbox back in tomorrow and see how far I get putting the subframe etc back on. Also awaiting 3l of ELF gearbox oil for the new box.

Good meeting you too mate, best of luck with the car and project ?

 

[Hazza462]

Bolted the gearbox up to the engine and bolted the starter back on this evening after putting the flywheel and clutch back on tonight. Just needs putting back on it's mounts now so we can get rid of the jack holding the engine up and then put the subframe back on etc.

Also just ordered another new PMS Shifter kit as Alex was depressed about me selling it...?

 

[Hazza462]

Everything is back in now with the new ELF box oil in and the car starts again thankfully. Not sure if I mentioned before but had the alternator refurbed locally and we re-fitted that last night too. The new PMS shifter kit we fitted and set up last night too.
The spline on the steering column fell out when we dropped the subframe and I forgot to line it back up when re-fitting so will have to remove the column and re-connect the steering up. Then it'll need tracking again... Other than putting the airbox and ducting back in, the cars back to where it was before the last trackday but hopefully more reliable with it's new gearbox and alternator now ?

Will finish off these bits and then get cracking on the list to logbook it! I've booked an assessment session to start my B+E test and also bought my 'Go Rallying' starter pack from the MSA so will hopefully get my BARS test done soon too.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

You might need a graphics change before the logbook. The MSA might be funny about the "Mild Seven" logo as it's a tobacco brand?

 

[Hazza462]

You might need a graphics change before the logbook. The MSA might be funny about the "Mild Seven" logo as it's a tobacco brand?

Really haha that's ridiculous lol. I'll have to see...

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Tobacco sponsorship is banned, so I would have thought this would fall under that? I have seen a replica of a Bastos M3 that had been changed to "Basto5" to get round it. Might be worth a flick through the blue book anyway.