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incy-spiders Clio 182 turbo
- Thread starter incy-spider
- Start date
incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
So another winter and some more upgrades...
This time I’m upgrading the standard chinese T25/28 hybrid turbo supplied in the ED kits.. it’s not failed and is still in great shape, no play.
I’m going for some newer tech, theres like 20years of turbo research done since the old turbo and today’s stuff. I’ve gone for a GTX2860R ball bearing turbo with a billet 11 blade compressor and reduced the A/R down from .86 to .64 to reduce lag but still retain high end power due to the better turbo design. (That’s the theory anyway)
I’ve also purchased a Mishimoto intercooler which to be honest doesn’t look big in the pics compared to the ED cooler but, ITS BIG! Obviously not big to the full sized FMIC see about but a huge improvement (again hopefully)
I managed to kill my main shaft bearings at nür and spa this year, it started sounding a bit rough after the TF sessions but had to press on as a full day at spa was the next day and it survived a full day of hard lapping at around 3min laps... and got me home [emoji26][emoji26]
Thanks to Mark Northloop mayfield for sorting the rebuild, it had quite a few new parts [emoji106][emoji106][emoji106] my workload at the time was through the roof and with audits I sent it to him as I trust his workmanship 100% and he got me better prices than I can get from my own stores!!
The engine isn’t far off going back in, fabricating a new under turbo brace currently and then turbo time again! [emoji97][emoji97][emoji97]
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This time I’m upgrading the standard chinese T25/28 hybrid turbo supplied in the ED kits.. it’s not failed and is still in great shape, no play.
I’m going for some newer tech, theres like 20years of turbo research done since the old turbo and today’s stuff. I’ve gone for a GTX2860R ball bearing turbo with a billet 11 blade compressor and reduced the A/R down from .86 to .64 to reduce lag but still retain high end power due to the better turbo design. (That’s the theory anyway)
I’ve also purchased a Mishimoto intercooler which to be honest doesn’t look big in the pics compared to the ED cooler but, ITS BIG! Obviously not big to the full sized FMIC see about but a huge improvement (again hopefully)
I managed to kill my main shaft bearings at nür and spa this year, it started sounding a bit rough after the TF sessions but had to press on as a full day at spa was the next day and it survived a full day of hard lapping at around 3min laps... and got me home [emoji26][emoji26]
Thanks to Mark Northloop mayfield for sorting the rebuild, it had quite a few new parts [emoji106][emoji106][emoji106] my workload at the time was through the roof and with audits I sent it to him as I trust his workmanship 100% and he got me better prices than I can get from my own stores!!
The engine isn’t far off going back in, fabricating a new under turbo brace currently and then turbo time again! [emoji97][emoji97][emoji97]
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GrahamS
ClioSport Club Member
335d
Oh yes, like the new turbo a lot, will be really good to see the results, especially as it’s a GTX. @Martin. ’s build has a GT2560R and the difference between the ED turbo and that is huge. Massive spool improvements and a much bigger area under the graph. Yours is perfectly set up for the 2860 although going to be close to the bulkhead!
incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
Yes I’m a little worried about this! The compressor housing is slightly larger, not massively but I may need to address it when I test fit! I nearly went for a 2560 myself but wanted to try some newer aerodynamics! [emoji123]
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incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
You shall not move! Nearly finished fabricating my brace, will be a bar through the brackets on the turbo, this is a mock up but is doing the job!
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dann2707
ClioSport Club Member
Looks awesome dude. Nice work. Are you aiming for the same power just more usable power under the line on the graph?
incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
Cheers mate,
Mainly more of a spread, but it will do more.. it’s just the fueling that will hold it back.
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incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
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incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
All ready to drop back in the bay, I may encounter clearance issues to the bulk head, fingers crossed it’ll be just pipework if anything
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incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
Coming together now, cooler sitting nicely, few pipes coming to get it all nice. Should start it up this week and check base actuator boost levels before running it into my boost solenoid.. actually hoping it won’t be safe on the AFR when in full boost. I’d like another dyno tweak and see what this turbo can do.
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incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
Good to see it fits. Bet that was a relief.
Lots of preventative measures to stop the turbo coming loose and the downpipe cracking. Like the idea of a flexi there. Not much left to do now
Yeah, to be honest I don’t know why I didn’t put a flexible joint in to start with, may have been worried about chopping the downpipe, it was made by the guys that make the PMS system!
All I have left at the end of today is some of the worlds most expensive gear oil coming tomorrow, some vac/boost hose to my boost solenoid and a reducer pipe to the intercooler... should have it spooling up tomorrow [emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]
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incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
Well it’s running, still waiting for a boost pipe from ASH. Will be here tomorrow then I can get the bumper back on and have a drive [emoji106]
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incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
This thing is an animal!!!
The way this turbo spools is unreal, it’s slightly over boosting at the moment so need to be careful until I get it up to mapping again.. but it’s produces boost effortlessly.
Gearbox feels spot on again and loving seeing the new intercooler filling the front grill!
Had a small issue with it running too rich on idle and cruising but had Andy Cutler from Phoenix to do a little tweak over the net on my drive way, watching him work around the Gems software is mental, took him no time and it’s now spot on and passing the cat test on MOT’s. Top guy
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The way this turbo spools is unreal, it’s slightly over boosting at the moment so need to be careful until I get it up to mapping again.. but it’s produces boost effortlessly.
Gearbox feels spot on again and loving seeing the new intercooler filling the front grill!
Had a small issue with it running too rich on idle and cruising but had Andy Cutler from Phoenix to do a little tweak over the net on my drive way, watching him work around the Gems software is mental, took him no time and it’s now spot on and passing the cat test on MOT’s. Top guy
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incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
Lockdown project, been keeping my self busy fitting my AEM v2 water methanol kit.. built a sub floor to bolt everything down too instead of drilling loads of holes in my car..
Tank in the boot is f**king huge, but the little upright tank looked utter s**t in there without any decent ways to mount it so sold it on..
Smallest 250cc/min nozzle fitted, I’ll be using this setup to give me extra cooling when on the track, never really suffered from silly high IAT temps but I’m a firm believer in keeping things working and I’d be properly miffed if I melted one of my Meg 265 pistons, they aren’t easy to come by like the set I have with sod all mileage on..
Obviously can’t do any testing on the road apart from shooting to Tesco for our food shop so I’ll wait for that.
Ordered a new fuel pump today too, not for any reason other than the inline pump from the swirl pot is rated to around 250bhp and I’m nearer 300bhp now, possibly more in the future so thought I’d up the pump a bit! I can highly recommend the Sytec 017 which has served me well for 5 years!
Hope everyone is doing well at this shitty time [emoji1308]
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frayz
ClioSport Club Member
Ever considered upgrading the ECU to a Syvecs and running a flex fuel sensor?
You could run a mix of meth in tank and allow the ECU to control the calibration?
Switchable maps on the fly, LC, ALS, Rolling ALS. Your options and flexibility with it are almost infinitely adaptable.
Run active knock control and have full control over the open and closed loop.
I can see how thorough you have been with this and focus on reliability.
Could be an option well worth exploring
You could run a mix of meth in tank and allow the ECU to control the calibration?
Switchable maps on the fly, LC, ALS, Rolling ALS. Your options and flexibility with it are almost infinitely adaptable.
Run active knock control and have full control over the open and closed loop.
I can see how thorough you have been with this and focus on reliability.
Could be an option well worth exploring
incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
No but I like the idea!! You sound pretty clued up? I’d imagine Syvecs wouldn’t have any issue running larger injectors too and dealing them in? Which is the reason I haven’t done so far on the Gen90 it’s shite with larger injectors.
My only problem with a different ECU is cutting my loom about but it may have to be an option as things progress
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frayz
ClioSport Club Member
Use a Syvecs S6 and Im sure you could have a loom adapter made. Then it would be plug & play.
I used to run Injector Dynamics ID1000s in my impreza and it started, idled and drove like a standard car. In fact due to the resolution of the calibration available it was better than a standard car.
As the ECU runs active knock control, any hint of det and it will pull the timing and boost of you set it to. Being active it can also add timing if it sees fit uo to a certain point. All sensors can be controlled via the ECU including additional inputs such as widebands, EGT sensors etc so if any one of those goes beyond a set target limit it will pull the motor into limp.
It just takes care of so much and offers so much flexibility that you can concentrate on driving and enjoying the car
Sounds like I’m on commission lol, but if I were to go the turbo route, a Syvecs would be at the top of my wish list.
incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
Nice, how come you’ve got so much knowledge on it?
Loom adapter is a good idea, I’ll do some wish listing!!
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Loom adapter is a good idea, I’ll do some wish listing!!
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frayz
ClioSport Club Member
Don’t get me wrong, I’m far from an expert on it. But mainly because I ran one in my car for 4 years after doing the big power build and it was flawless. This was in Syvecs early days but now they power many of the fastest tuner vehicles in the world.
Not cheap, but a bargain compared to comparable Motec setups and offer just as much if not more than Motec at a far more affordable price.
Don’t get me wrong, you obviously dont NEED it to run your car as proven. But after seeing you go to the lengths of adding a meth mix injection, I thought you may be interested if you wasn’t already aware. With the flex fuel, you can add meth direct to the fuel to help control det and let the ECU sort it out. I never ran the sensor as I was before that time, so just added 20% meth by measured amount and swapped the cal on the rotary switch.
To give you an example.
It was making 525bhp/490lbsft on Vpower alone at 1.9 bar.
Adding a 20% splash of meth to that a power and torque rose to 575bhp/520lbsft.
Syvecs Powertrain Control – Syvecs Powertrain Control
www.syvecs.com
incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
Superb project by the way
Thanks mate, if you need any info give me a shout!
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incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
Don’t get me wrong, I’m far from an expert on it. But mainly because I ran one in my car for 4 years after doing the big power build and it was flawless. This was in Syvecs early days but now they power many of the fastest tuner vehicles in the world.
Not cheap, but a bargain compared to comparable Motec setups and offer just as much if not more than Motec at a far more affordable price.
Don’t get me wrong, you obviously dont NEED it to run your car as proven. But after seeing you go to the lengths of adding a meth mix injection, I thought you may be interested if you wasn’t already aware. With the flex fuel, you can add meth direct to the fuel to help control det and let the ECU sort it out. I never ran the sensor as I was before that time, so just added 20% meth by measured amount and swapped the cal on the rotary switch.
To give you an example.
It was making 525bhp/490lbsft on Vpower alone at 1.9 bar.
Adding a 20% splash of meth to that a power and torque rose to 575bhp/520lbsft.
Syvecs Powertrain Control – Syvecs Powertrain Control
To be fair it could all be a bit overkill for me, as where I am power wise isn’t far off! The only thing that I get a bit annoyed with is the lack of resolution allowing me to explore bigger injectors without ruining how well it drives at the mo.. that been said if this new turbo has changed things drastically then I may need to look into something!
Everything seems safe at the mo and with the added meth Absolutely no worries before I go and have a dyno tweak, but I may find that it needs larger injectors to make use of the better turbo.
This is where it would be great to have chris@efi on here to chat about stuff!
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Brigsy
ClioSport Club Member
T.Turbo
Looks well just caught up with the build
Any feedback on the quality of the Kinugawa gtx2860r and how much did it set you back. Ive been looking at garrett gtx2860r gen2 for around 1k for core and comp cover, and these are tempting, but nearly garrett prices now.
Any feedback on the quality of the Kinugawa gtx2860r and how much did it set you back. Ive been looking at garrett gtx2860r gen2 for around 1k for core and comp cover, and these are tempting, but nearly garrett prices now.
incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
Looks well just caught up with the build
Any feedback on the quality of the Kinugawa gtx2860r and how much did it set you back. Ive been looking at garrett gtx2860r gen2 for around 1k for core and comp cover, and these are tempting, but nearly garrett prices now.
Quality is superb, the machining on the billet impeller is awesome.. castings are very nice too. My only criticism was the way they mounted the actuator bracket without any washers! But that was it! The spool and response is incredible, also sounds lovely. I’d recommend them, I paid £800 for everything including import I think.
There is a lot of Garret snobbery around and all the big makes are obviously amazing quality but I thought I’d give it a crack and am very glad I did. Very popular in Australia etc.
And as a Mechanic for Renault/Mazda/Dacia and work on all other makes I see Garret failing a lot so they aren’t the be all and end all of turbo manufacturers, especially the Garret on Traffics/Clio and the mazda skyactiv engines... utter crap!
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incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
Few more driveway jobs done, been meaning to replace the thermostat for a while, never done!!! Glad I finally got to it [emoji54][emoji2359]
New coil and leads on too, found the old coil cracking a bit too.
And finally a new steering wheel [emoji108]
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frayz
ClioSport Club Member
You can see the coil pack is cracked. Good spot. 👍🏼
incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
I've been driving a cracked coil for 3 year without problems
I think you can get 83 degrees thermostat if you want to keep the temp a bit low.
I will use one because I will go with modine oil cooler.
I have a 75 degree one in there now from PMS, yeah I saw mine was cracked a long time ago but never caused an issue.. just thought I’d do it!
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incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
Wheel on, custom horn button [emoji106]
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incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
Sooo Friday the 17th I have the Gen90 master Andy Cutler coming down to get the new turbo and 630cc injectors dialled in on the dyno supported by a much bigger intercooler and after mapping kept cool by the AEM meth kit.
Previously the ED turbo ran out of puff at 11-12psi and the 225 Megane injectors were reaching max duty. 282bhp was achieved but I felt like we were stretching things and although was faultless around Spa and Nür I wanted to sort.
I’m not necessarily shooting for mega power I just want the low end throttle to be spot on (which can be very difficult with 630cc and Gen90) and make more use of the Gtx2860r gen 2.. figures of 320-350hp have been spoken about and very do able but we’ll see!
Will update on the day[emoji1695]
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Previously the ED turbo ran out of puff at 11-12psi and the 225 Megane injectors were reaching max duty. 282bhp was achieved but I felt like we were stretching things and although was faultless around Spa and Nür I wanted to sort.
I’m not necessarily shooting for mega power I just want the low end throttle to be spot on (which can be very difficult with 630cc and Gen90) and make more use of the Gtx2860r gen 2.. figures of 320-350hp have been spoken about and very do able but we’ll see!
Will update on the day[emoji1695]
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incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
Big day was today! Arrived on site, fitted my 630cc injectors just before Andy arrived to get it on the rollers for setting up smooth throttle, low end finicky bits..
Built up after some loading to some power runs... straight off the bat 352hp 322lbft [emoji15][emoji15]
Turbo is definitely worth it, injectors definitely worth it, Andy definitely worth it!!
Anyway after some playing around with timing, boost etc etc we settled for a tad less, I’m all for big power but come on.. who needs that much in a Clio turbo [emoji23][emoji23]
All this was around 14psi with safe timing, consecutive end of mapping runs were around 330 - 340hp and 311lbft. That’s fine with me!!
We then turned on the meth to see how this affects temps etc and it basically helped maintain the higher figures keeping charge temps cool! So will be using that in the track 100%
Here’s some pics, I couldn’t thank Andy Cutler from Phoenix automotive technology enough, very professional and travelled all the way to me from Dorset (3.5 hours) and big thanks to Tuning lab in Shebbear for the rental of their awesome rolling road [emoji106][emoji106]
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frayz
ClioSport Club Member
Torque looks lovely and smooth. 👌🏼
incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
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incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
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incy-spider
ClioSport Club Member
I cut a hole in a new spare bonnet I had, the aim to keep the back of the bay, particularly the bulk head... Cool!
I’m not sure I like it, sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t.. depends where I’m stood (behind the car) it serves a purpose and it was fun playing tbh.
Thoughts...?
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